Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: katkavage on Today at 08:04:28 AMWorks both ways, MG. The defenders and the detractors. That is why it has remained a hot topic. Banks can call out the defenders as easily as the detractors. Both are guilty here but he chooses the latter group to call goofy.

That's the thing, Kat, you really can't.   When you tally up the posts, there are far more negative posts than positive posts.  If you really study the dynamics, much of what could be perceived as positive post about Jones are usually posts responding to criticism.   Hell, even my mini-rant was nuanced.  I didn't say it was wrong to have a negative view (which stands in stark contrast to the accusations of "making excuses").  I didn't even say that Jones will prove to be a franchise QB (which, again, stands in stark contrast to critics who claim Jones will never be a franchise QB). 

The "both sides do it" argument is just a way to defend that which really can't be defended, in my opinion.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on Today at 07:28:33 AMStill,  the 2006 squad had 2md round pick, 3rd that was signed from another team and a 5th along with two UDGAs.  The current squad has two high #1s and a 2nd.  Is the CBA why 2 of those high picks haven't developed? Were all the other teams in the NFL able to develop UDFAs and late picks as well in 2006.

I can't answer with certainty, but I think there is a good chance the answer is yes.  You listen to any linemen or coach talk about practice and the offensive line, and they always talk about the only time it really helps is when the pads go one (which is quite rare now).   Prior to 2011, if an offensive lineman struggled, they would get extra practice (with pads) after the regular practice.   That simply isn't allowed anymore.   As I said, there is a chronic shortage of quality linemen these days.  That's because the guys don't have a chance to develop into NFL-caliber linemen.   There is only so much an offensive linemen can develop blocking against air or in padless practices.

I think the frustration that Bob and Carl expressed has more to do with how fans go overboard in their criticism of Daniel Jones, rather than their opinion of Daniel Jones.  We have seen that sort of thing here.  A post is made about the Giants having the worst offensive line, and you get posts about how people are making excuses for Daniel Jones.   People here will cherry-pick facts and spend an inordinate amount of time curating facts about other QBs just to criticize or put Daniel Jones down.  Hell, we have even seen posts mocking his facial expression or posts about bleaching one's eyes because you read DJ will be the starting QB.

I have seen game threads that were filled with "Jones' throw was poor," "Jones held on to the ball too long," and "Jones missed the open man." I have even seen Jones blamed for offensive linemen jumping early.   Then Jones throws a TD and you get crickets or a nice catch (by the receiver Jones throws to) or on occasion a begrudging "good throw" (this is the rare thing).

Jones isn't the only target.  People who don't share the strong negative views on Jones are accused of "making excuses" if they dare to consider the terrible situation Jones has dealt with since entering the NFL.   I have seen people accuse those people of undergoing mental gymnastics to defend Jones.

Someone mentioned Evan Neal.   Evan Neal, by any objective standard, has been far worse (considering his draft position) than Daniel Jones, but it's rare to see people putting the man down.  Most are still hoping he will do better, or they have given up on him, but he isn't injected into every conversation.  People are not scouring the league to find other OTs to compare Neal to so they can show how much worse Neal is in comparison.  All of that is a unique situation of Daniel Jones.

So, I can understand Carl and Bob's frustration.   It's not like either of them are saying Jones is doing great.  Neither is suggesting that Jones needs to step up his game or even that Jones is the long term answer.  It's just that the amount of time and energy and the frequency DJ's critics put into putting the man down really gets tiring.  The man's performance needs improvement, but he is still the starting QB of the team we root for.   It's sort of hollow to talk about how one "I don't dislike the guy" if all you do at every opportunity is put the man down and work tirelessly to put him in the worst light possible.

Daniel Jones is a good man who works his ass off for the team.  Even if you don't think highly of him, at least give the man the benefit of the doubt and try to be supportive.  I have always said about fan boards that no one will ever fault you for saying positive things about the team (unless that positive is directed at Daniel Jones).  When it comes to criticism, think about cooking with strong spices, a little goes a long way.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on May 17, 2024, 09:18:11 PMA stunning difference in ROI for the OL.

The 2006 was before the 2011 CBA.  The owners traded away practice time for more money.  As a result there has been a chronic shortage of offensive linemen because there isn't enough time to properly develop them.

It seems Carl Banks has had enough.  I know some of you will dismiss Carl Banks as a company stooge, but from my years of listening to him, Carl Banks calls it as he sees it.   He may not go heavy on the criticism as would be expected by someone who also works for the Giants (the Podcast is not a Giants sanctioned), but Carl doesn't act like the team's cheerleader, either. 

https://x.com/CarlBanksGIII/status/1791449243762270431


If you want more context and more comments, here is the entire podcast


Dear Toxic Giants Fans, Root for Daniel Jones

In this episode, Bob Papa and Carl Banks discuss a recent tweet from Bob that wasn't related to Daniel Jones and sparked backlash from Giants fans. They talk about why it's counterproductive for fans to root against Jones. They explore Daniel Jones's challenges over the years, highlighting the lack of stability from coaching and inadequate support on the field. By comparing the Giants' situation to other franchises, they shed light on why fans need to appreciate what this storied franchise has accomplished. Lastly, they touch on Hard Knocks' during this 100th season and how fans will see behind-the-scenes access during the off-season.  #tellafriendtotellafriend

Which is the toughest game the Giants have for 2024?

Who is the toughest/best player the Giants face in 2024?

Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 17, 2024, 12:05:17 PMYou can't crash and burn in the playoffs unless you make the playoffs.

The Cowboys last won a Super Bowl in 1996.  Since then, the Giants have been to three Super Bowls and won two.

I think I prefer the Super Bowl victories over the regular playoff appearances.

Now, this is a nice gift for the season ticket holders


https://x.com/AdamSchefter/status/1791468727134740864

https://x.com/kylelauletta/status/1791456383965032470

I predict that there will be somewhere between 0 and 17 regular season wins.   


Seriously, there are far to many variables and unknowns for me to make any sort of prediction that I would have any sort of confidence in.

Quote from: Philosophers on May 16, 2024, 09:31:37 PMIt's just amazing how woefully deficient the 2024 Gmen are to say the 2006 team.  Just go position by position.

Want to get really deptessed?  Look at the 2nd stringers

2006




2024

Quote from: miss86 on May 16, 2024, 08:35:59 PMI think Atlanta is going to be tuff this year. I think they are going to be a good team with QB Cousins and Giants playing in their stadium. The good part is, it will be much warmer there than the NE.

The Falcons would have been tougher had they not used their first-round pick on Penix.  It's not like the team can play two QBs at once.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 17, 2024, 10:12:31 AMI don't hate him.  I envy the fact that he is a better owner than the Giants'.

Is he really?  It seems like Jimmy Johnson (along with the historical stupidity of the Vikings) spurred the early success.  After Jerrah's ego spurred him to fire Jimmy Johnson, they have been a team that collects plenty of talent (and develops and manages them well), but year and year, crashes and burns when the playoffs come around.  Plus, see my post on how I view Jerrah, you don't have those sorts of traits with any of the Mara family.

Quote from: Philosophers on May 17, 2024, 10:26:59 AMIf DJ falters, do you think the Giants see Lock as his heir replacement so a rookie QB was never really an option?

If DJ falters, I think Lock gets a shot.  I don't know if I would say the odds are favorable that Lock will prove to be a franchise QB.  That said, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities that Lock surprises in a good way.  Lock seemed to come into the league not fully appreciating what it took to be an NFL QB.  Even Lock's father confirmed that.  Lock does seem to appreciate now what it takes.  Combine Lock's natural talent (which is NFL caliber) with a QB whisperer like Daboll, and you never know.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on May 17, 2024, 09:16:57 AMActually, no one except Schoen knows what was offered or even how seriously he was...or if there was really an offer ever made in the first place. I've read dozens of reports, and they are all built on conjecture followed by wild-ass guesses. The actual "offer" is sheer speculation and nothing more. But now it's NFL Gospel, built upon pundits quoting other pundits quoting "insiders" (there were no leaks, LOL), that the Giants wanted Maye, and were willing to mortgage the farm to get him. Schoen might have been serious, might have been gauging the Patriots' real interest, or a complete ruse to throw other teams off their trail...who knows? No one except Schoen and the Patriots' Eliot Wolf. But I expect to hear for the next few years that the Giants wanted Maye...yet we'll never know unless Schoen retires and decides to share his strategy going into the 2024 draft

I also read (prior to the draft), that Maye's stock had been falling, perhaps even to the back end of round one. Then within a week of the draft, his stock went back up  I also read that he was Daniel Jones 2.0. I also read that his talent did not match his hype, etc., etc. But I guess it makes sense that fans (hoping for a new QB project) believe that Schoen wasn't interested in a top WR when he could have gotten a QB to set us back several years. Personally, I hope Maye succeeds (unless playing the Giants), and maybe he will. I'm just glad we're not the ones with our fingers crossed, hoping that Maye is so much better than DJ that we have visions of super bowls dancing in our heads

The Giants were apparently high on Maye.  However, he was a polarizing prospect with some NFL caliber evaluators predicting Maye will crash and burn.

I don't know how Maye will turn out.  I am mindful that fixing mechanical and consistency issues are more difficult to fix than Josh Allen made it look.