Big Blue Huddle

https://x.com/TalkinGiants/status/1784962670803751130

Quote from: kingm56 on April 29, 2024, 10:49:01 AMWhy do said tweets need to be an explicit message from the team?  IMO, they represent nothing more than common sense based on facts. 

It's well known the Giants attempted to trade up for Drake; it's also well known DJs contract has an escape clause after this season. It should also be known DJ hasn't been very good and/or healthy. Thus, do we/Dj need a message from the team that states the obvious?

Matt,

The two beat-writers I cited both post what the team wishes to be posted.  While there were plenty of insiders reporting the Giants tried to trade up to the third pick to draft Maye, it was still pretty much rumor.  With these two reports, I think it's fair to move it from rumor (with a strong possibility of being true) to now given fact. 

To your question, I wouldn't say "need" but I would say, "it can't hurt"

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on April 29, 2024, 10:52:31 AMHyatt on the low end has already proven his speed has to be accounted for on every play he is in for. That alone opens things up for other players. On the high end he becomes a nuanced route runner. Kinda a more explosive Slayton, like a lot more.

When it comes to receiving, they talk about the 3 layers.   There are the short passed (under 10 yards), the intermediate passes (10-20), and the deep passes.   Nabers can be effective in all three layers.   Last year, the Giants lacked a receiver that could challenge the intermediate layer.   Now Nabers can do that, with Hyatt challenging deep, and Robison challenging the short stuff.

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on April 29, 2024, 10:39:28 AMDidn't see this post before by Mighty , but it's excellent perspective.

You know Daboll when he came on board in '22 said 'This must be the slowest team in the NFL' . You can see since 2022 they have added a crap ton of speed, quickness guys to this roster.

Team speed is drastically transformed.

I will add that Carl Banks shared after Daboll's season one that the coaching staff was frustrated that none of the receivers could get open on their own; they all needed to be schemed open.  That made it much tougher to call an effective offense.

Quote from: Ed Vette on April 29, 2024, 10:32:12 AMLet's hope there aren't any Diva comparisons. 

Ed,

It seems like many WRs have a bit of diva in them.  I think with OBJ, "the catch" did more harm than good.  OBJ received too much fame too quickly and not fully deserved thanks to that one catch, and I think it had a negative impact on the young man.  I think he was too young to handle that sort of fame.

Quote from: PSUBeirut on April 29, 2024, 10:33:25 AMYou can't be telling me that Phil Simms or any other QBs Parcells coached ever had any doubt exactly where they stood from Parcells' own mouth.  I am 100% positive he did not need to send any messages through the press to his quarterbacks.  It's one of the reasons why he WAS such a great leader. 

Also not saying Daboll isn't - I find it hard to believe that DJ needs to have a message sent through the media.  If he does, he's a lot weaker than I've given him credit for.

Do you remember Parcells famously, referring to oft-injured (at the time) WR Terry Glenn as "she" to the press?

Not that it soured their relationship as years later:

QuoteSo when Parcells became coach of the Dallas Cowboys in January, Glenn told his agent to get him there, too. The player fans might have thought was the last Parcells would ever acquire wound up being the first to follow him to Texas, and both are thrilled with the reunion.

https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/news/2003/07/31/glenn-parcells-go-far-beyond-she-remark/28758882007/

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on April 29, 2024, 10:24:27 AMThat's never been who he is. It would be forced. And people can tell when you're pretending to be something you're not (especially these guys, who brim with confidence). He was chosen to be the stoic, lead-by-example QB akin to Eli--except that only works if you're good enough on the field, which Jones has not proven to be. Assuredly all respect Jones, but Saquon was the emotional leader of the team.

I am likening it to the Tom Coughlin transformation.   Tom didn't change who he was, he just made some minor adjustments to his approach so people could see who he was all about.  I suspect Jones could do something similar.

Here is a Tweet from the other Giants' mouthpiece


https://x.com/GiantInsider/status/1784951912430727590

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on April 29, 2024, 10:21:51 AMI think he has an interal fire burning to be good. He just doesn't show it overtly kinda like Eli.

That's not necessarily an issue in my mind at least.

Eli was a quiet leader, but Eli was smarter than most give him credit for.  While he had that quiet, laid-back public demeanor, he was also clever enough to send messages when they needed to be sent.  The quiet laid back leadership style is a tough one for an NFL QB to pull off.  I suspect the more firey leadership style is easier to pull off, and it seems like the Giants would like to see Jones try. 


I remember a month or so ago, Phil Simms saying words to the effect of, he need to adopt an "FU, I am going to win and keep my job" attitude

Quote from: PSUBeirut on April 29, 2024, 10:13:24 AMHe absolutely needs to show more fire and passion.  I definitely question whether Daboll and Schoen really need to send that message through the media, though.  If they feel they need to do it that way they're pretty shitty leaders and have been way too soft on DJ.  It's time to suck it up and perform or go home, simple as that.

Parcells was famous for sending messages via the press.  I am pretty sure most don't consider him a "shitty leader"

@Uncle Mickey

This is an excellent summary, well done 


Interesting suggestion about Bellinger getting too heavy.  He seemed to decline year two, but I didn't know why.

One thing to remember about Bowen: the Giants gave him some serious help.  The Giant's long-time DB coach, Jerome Henderson (who is on this 3rd DC), is an excellent coach.   At 54, his window for a DC job may have closed (he did have an interview or two).   They promoted Henderson to DB coach AND passing game coordinator.   I think Henderson will be a valuable asset for Bown.   Plus, the Giants still have the best D-line coach in the game, Andre Patterson.   Bowen may be a bit of an unknown, but it appears between the talented added and the coaching support structure, the Giants did all they could to put him in a position to succeed.

Quote from: Gmo11 on April 29, 2024, 09:57:21 AMMotivation and work ethic have never been things I question about Jones.  His ability to play NFL football on the other hand...

Meaning I don't think any sort of message even needs to be sent.  He's trying to be the absolute best he can be every year he's just not very good at this.  Few people are.  That's why they get paid so much money! 

I don't think Maye would have been much better though so I'm kinda glad that deal never actually happened.

You make a very fair point.  Although, I suspect the Giants would like to see Jones show a bit more fire and passion. 

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on April 29, 2024, 09:56:35 AMDecent points, Rich. My one area of disagreement is around running back. I have no issues for the committee approach in order to save Cap space but I think there will be a decline in production for the Giants.

Barkley ran behind the same line that gets criticised for Jones' lack of production but rarely (not aiming this at you) is attributed to Barkley's struggles. I personally don't think that's reasonable. If the Eagles line is adequate, I think he'll have a very good season.

Other than that, I largely agree with your points.

I am not going to dispute the possibility that Barkley's production will improve behind the Eagle's better line.  I will say though, that in Schoen's first two seasons, he brought in offensive linemen who were better run blockers than pass blockers.

Quote from: nicky1000 on April 29, 2024, 09:54:26 AMMighty Giants - 2021 looks like a pretty barren roster!

I think Schoen is doing things the right way. Is he perfect? No. No one is.

I agree. I appreciate that many are focused on the QB being the same, but in terms of building a better, more talented roster, Schoen seems to be moving in the right direction.

Daboll talked about "generators" in his post-draft presser. 

QuoteQ. The first night, we were talking about Nabors, the idea was presented to you, the idea that you were giving Daniel a weapon, seemed like -- a weapon for the offense. Is there a sense where you're now trying to build what you want from your offense and what you want from your defense, and it's not necessarily a specific player but it's also kind of what you believe now, want to have, as far as what you're going to do offensively?

BRIAN DABOLL: Yeah, I think -- generators.

Q. Generators?

BRIAN DABOLL: Yeah, people that can do stuff with the ball in their hands. Whether that's take a jet sweep and go 30 yards or whether that's running a double move and catch it 50 yards down the field to help you score points. You know, just to go back to Malik, I feel that he is that.

Now, he's got a lot of work to do. There's a big playbook to learn. You've got to try to slow it down for these young players when they get in. But anyone that can touch the ball -- and linemen can be generators, too, in a different way, by keeping the pocket clean, by getting movement at the line of scrimmage.

So I wouldn't say that it's necessarily -- you've got to wait to see what you have and then try to move pieces around and see where -- Theo, where he fits it in, where Malik fits in, there are different positions to play. There's five eligible players on every play and you try to use those guys the best you can. But they have to come in here and prove it and earn the right to play.

I think the Giants had done a pretty good job adding more "generators to their roster

For fun, here was the Giants roster from the season before Schoen and Daboll took over

2021