Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: T200 on October 18, 2023, 10:23:05 AMYou only asked about one game:

Exactly, I was seeing citations of just those two games and asked if the 31-point game should count.  I am not sure how you concluded that I was suggesting that was the only game that should be considered. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 18, 2023, 10:26:16 AMExactly, I was seeing citations of just those two games and asked if the 31-point game should count.  I am not sure how you concluded that I was suggesting that was the only game that should be considered. 

Jones played 5 games. Two games were mentioned, you mentioned the 31-point game. There were still 2 games not mentioned. Your only concern was his sole good 1/2 game out of 5.

Quote from: T200 on October 18, 2023, 10:29:06 AMJones played 5 games. Two games were mentioned, you mentioned the 31-point game. There were still 2 games not mentioned. Your only concern was his sole good 1/2 game out of 5.

Where did I say that we should ignore those games?

I think we have to consider that for 2 seasons now it has been drilled into DJ not to commit turnovers. Due to the fact that the O has been limited due to various reasons. I am not absolving his play, but I believe that that would cause some hesitation on his part to getting the ball out quicker.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 18, 2023, 10:31:33 AMWhere did I say that we should ignore those games?

Where did I say you said we should ignore them?

Quote from: T200 on October 18, 2023, 10:32:37 AMWhere did I say you said we should ignore them?

The difference is that when I mentioned the 31-point game, the two zero-point games were on the table.  When the zero-point games were mentioned, the 31-point game had not been mentioned.

That's a critical distinction

Quote from: beaugestus on October 18, 2023, 10:32:15 AMI think we have to consider that for 2 seasons now it has been drilled into DJ not to commit turnovers. Due to the fact that the O has been limited due to various reasons. I am not absolving his play, but I believe that that would cause some hesitation on his part to getting the ball out quicker.

I understand your point but to me, that kind of says getting the ball out quicker has a direct correlation to turnovers. Don't get it out quicker to help prevent turnovers.

To me, the best way to prevent turnovers is to make better decisions and better throws. Faster or slower has no bearing on that. The speed with which he gets rid of the ball has a bearing on pass rush effectiveness and sacks, but not so much turnovers... unless he gets hit and fumbles.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 18, 2023, 10:35:08 AMThe difference is that when I mentioned the 31-point game, the two zero-point games were on the table.  When the zero-point games were mentioned, the 31-point game had not been mentioned.

That's a critical distinction

Rich,

We can go round and round the mulberry bush all day if you'd like. You don't want to concede the point? Fine. But please don't insult my intelligence.

As you said, there were two games mentioned. You asked ONLY about ONE game. That leaves two more games that were not mentioned. Plain and simple. Two plus one does not equal five.

Quote from: T200 on October 18, 2023, 10:38:25 AMRich,

We can go round and round the mulberry bush all day if you'd like. You don't want to concede the point? Fine. But please don't insult my intelligence.

As you said, there were two games mentioned. You asked ONLY about ONE game. That leaves two more games that were not mentioned. Plain and simple. Two plus one does not equal five.

As the famous saying goes, "I would love to agree with you, but then I would be wrong"   
 

Quote from: beaugestus on October 18, 2023, 10:32:15 AMI think we have to consider that for 2 seasons now it has been drilled into DJ not to commit turnovers. Due to the fact that the O has been limited due to various reasons. I am not absolving his play, but I believe that that would cause some hesitation on his part to getting the ball out quicker.

John: I agree but there is a "time limit" to everything in development of a QB. 

At SOME point, no matter how much potential a player possesses, you have to give up. 

I don't think Giants have done so yet (correctly, IMO) but I'd say it's about a-quarter-to-midnight as of today, and as we all know.... at midnight the coach reverts to a pumpkin. I chose the word "coach" because I'm referring to both Cinderella's mode of transportation as well as to Daboll. 

Bob

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 18, 2023, 10:40:36 AMAs the famous saying goes, "I would love to agree with you, but then I would be wrong"   
 

I'll see your quote and raise you:

The first law of holes, is an adage which states: "if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging."

 

Quote from: T200 on October 18, 2023, 08:34:59 AMFirst, saying it's "one extreme" is a gross mischaracterization of what was said.

Another mischaracterization is saying people hold Jones to "an impossibly high standard."

No one absolved Tyrod of his bone-headed decision at the end of the first half. And had it not been for inept refs at the end of the game, it's a very good chance the Giants win, meaning Tyrod led them on a game-winning drive at the end, on the road in a hostile environment.

Former.players, analysts, and fans who watched the game have said that the offense looked more effective with Taylor under center. At a fraction of the cost. Neither QB has thrown a TD pass or engineered a TD drive through 6 drives. They are equal in that regard, I'm sure you would agree.

What's more palatable: a QB who can't put it in the end zone for 5.5 million or 40 million?

Edit to add/ask: what's the "impossibly high standard" you speak of?

Yes, Tim. Tyrod was able to move the ball effectively. If the Oline was able to do their job, that audible would have and should have resulted in a TD. I actually fault Daboll for poor clock management near the end of that drive. If they had the time and just one more second, they win the game with two field goals.

Tyrod had just 6 starts in 2021 and none since. We saw the results of Jones not having a start in 9 months against Dallas in the season opener. Zero points. Both faced top-ten Defenses. Jones outside of that Cards game has scored 7.75 points on average including Defensive scoring.

   

Quote from: Ed Vette on October 18, 2023, 10:54:36 AMYes, Tim. Tyrod was able to move the ball effectively. If the Oline was able to do their job, that audible would have and should have resulted in a TD. I actually fault Daboll for poor clock management near the end of that drive. If they had the time and just one more second, they win the game with two field goals.

Tyrod had just 6 starts in 2021 and none since. We saw the results of Jones not having a start in 9 months against Dallas in the season opener. Zero points. Both faced top-ten Defenses. Jones outside of that Cards game has scored 7.75 points on average including Defensive scoring.

I really thought the light had gone on for Jones in the second half of the Cards game. To come out flat, albeit on a short week against the 9ers, was troubling to me.

I hope he's cleared to play and Pugh gets the nod again.

Btw, I don't consider Tyrod Taylor more than an adequate backup and a good veteran to work with Jones and DeVito. As a backup he moved the ball, didn't fumble for a turnover or throw an interception. A far better option than Glennon.

Quote from: T200 on October 18, 2023, 11:03:36 AMI really thought the light had gone on for Jones in the second half of the Cards game. To come out flat, albeit on a short week against the 9ers, was troubling to me.

I hope he's cleared to play and Pugh gets the nod again.

I hope he's held out one more week to fully heal and I hope as was in the case with Josh Allen he comes away with an epiphany and balls out the rest of his career. Because the league has figured him out and he's broken.