Do the Giants have a QB controversy?

[Gmo11]

The team plays better with Taylor. I'm not sure that's even arguable at this point. Because of that they absolutely have a controversy. Do they play the guy who's making 40 million dollars or do they play the best QB available?

My guess is if Jones is healthy he'll play and I think if he does he will be the best asset the Giants have to secure drafting his replacement.

[brownelvis54]

That's what this thread was about, what to do in the meantime and no matter what sport you are in I think you go with the hot hand and right now Taylor while not hot, is at least warm by comparison to the other qbs on the roster.

In the meantime? There is nothing to do. We are stuck with Jones...now and next year. Why play Taylor? 34-year-old QB? For what? I say put in Tommy DeVito and see what he can do. Draft J.J. McCarthy or Quinn Ewers in the draft and have them sit behind Jones. Sadly, Taylor might be the odd man out, just because of Jones' contract. Keep building and move on from Jones. Taylor is NOT the long term answer...we need to find one

[Messiah717]

Let's say Jones is healthy enough to start versus the Jets.  He's going to be under tremendous pressure.  If he throws up a stinker there's going to be zero patience for it. 

[Uni]

The team plays better with Taylor. I'm not sure that's even arguable at this point. Because of that they absolutely have a controversy. Do they play the guy who's making 40 million dollars or do they play the best QB available?

My guess is if Jones is healthy he'll play and I think if he does he will be the best asset the Giants have to secure drafting his replacement.

This. With Taylor as the baseline, they need to know Jones is not the guy. Winning a couple of more games with Taylor does nothing to help this team's draft position, so let Jones stink up the joint or have a light bulb turn on

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

[Jclayton92]

In the meantime? There is nothing to do. We are stuck with Jones...now and next year. Why play Taylor? 34-year-old QB? For what? I say put in Tommy DeVito and see what he can do. Draft J.J. McCarthy or Quinn Ewers in the draft and have them sit behind Jones. Sadly, Taylor might be the odd man out, just because of Jones' contract. Keep building and move on from Jones. Taylor is NOT the long term answer...we need to find one

You play Taylor out of pride for your team.

@DaveBrown74 and I discussed this today privately, as good as it would be for us to lose out so we can get a guy, neither him nor I can actively root against the team and want them to win every game even if that hurts our chances at a guy.

If we want to continue winning I think Taylor is a no brainer.

The last group of truly elite qbs were all drafted by teams that made the playoffs the year they drafted them Mahomes, Allen,or to a less extent Purdy, and Hurts. tanking doesn't give us the best chance to succeed in my opinion, it fractures the young pieces you already have.

Let the coaches coach to win and try to win then let the gm do what he gets paid for and make moves in the offseason to make sure we get a guy.

For right now ie the rest of this season Taylor gives you the best chance. No he's not the answer long term but neither is Jones after 5 years.

Once these coaches lose the locker room it's over, and after the performance the team has put up the past two games you can tell who the players feel more comfortable with imo.

[DaveBrown74]

One thing to keep in mind (I know this is obvious but it's worth saying out loud) is that they have to pay Jones the $40mm whether he plays or not. So that money is already spent. Right now at 2-5 they're desperate for wins. They don't have the luxury of making decisions based on what is optically convenient for them.

I do think they'll play Jones when he's healthy, but the leash won't be as long this time. If the offense looks like what it did before he got hurt, Taylor will be back in there, and he may be in there for a while. Simply put, the O line excuses won't hold nearly as much water this time around. Taylor has managed just fine behind this banged up line. The line is still clearly not good, but he has been more than functional out there as a 30-something journeyman backup making $5.5mm. So there really are no excuses for Jones to continue to be totally ineffective, which, save for two quarters in Arizona, he absolutely has been to this point.

[Gmo11]

One thing to keep in mind (I know this is obvious but it's worth saying out loud) is that they have to pay Jones the $40mm whether he plays or not. So that money is already spent. Right now at 2-5 they're desperate for wins. They don't have the luxury of making decisions based on what is optically convenient for them.

I do think they'll play Jones when he's healthy, but the leash won't be as long this time. If the offense looks like what it did before he got hurt, Taylor will be back in there, and he may be in there for a while. Simply put, the O line excuses won't hold nearly as much water this time around. Taylor has managed just fine behind this banged up line. The line is still clearly not good, but he has been more than functional out there as a 30-something journeyman backup making $5.5mm. So there really are no excuses for Jones to continue to be totally ineffective, which, save for two quarters in Arizona, he absolutely has been to this point.

I think you're right.. But what concerns me about that is Taylor game 2 was better than Taylor game 1. He's had back to back weeks of taking all the practice reps and it's helped. If they ride him he may well continue to improve. If they go back to Jones and waste more time effort and reps on him even if they do have a short leash we may not get the best possible Taylor.

So if it were me making the decision it's one or the other and we sink or sail with the choice. Either they hammer home the point that Jones just isn't very good and get into position to draft his replacement or they say screw it they're only 1.5 out of a wild card spot (miraculously) let's see if Taylor can keep it going as Thomas and JMS get healthy.

[MightyGiants]

Taylor started 2 games with Saquon as his RB and averaged 11.5 points per game.

If that is the impetus for a QB controversy, this team is far more flawed than it looks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Add in better pass protection and the team finally using the WRs correctly and one is hard pressed to believe that there is even remotely a controversy.  Taylor did a good job job as a veteran backup, but his performance doesn't create a controversy

[DaveBrown74]

Add in better pass protection and the team finally using the WRs correctly and one is hard pressed to believe that there is even remotely a controversy.  Taylor did a good job job as a veteran backup, but his performance doesn't create a controversy

Would you agree that if Jones comes back and looks like he has looked for the vast majority of this year that there might then be a controversy (as far as 2023 goes)?

[katkavage]

I'm sure they would play Jones based on what their financial investment is in him. As I've said, there is very little difference between the two with the exception of age. Jones is faster, bigger, but Taylor is a smarter QB and better at the long throw and making decisions. They both have to endure a bad offensive line and questionable play calling. The fan base, though, if Jones struggles, will howl for Taylor. The reality is if that the Giants need to find a QB where there will be no controversy. That won't happen for awhile though.

[kingm56]

One thing to keep in mind (I know this is obvious but it's worth saying out loud) is that they have to pay Jones the $40mm whether he plays or not. So that money is already spent. Right now at 2-5 they're desperate for wins. They don't have the luxury of making decisions based on what is optically convenient for them.

I do think they'll play Jones when he's healthy, but the leash won't be as long this time. If the offense looks like what it did before he got hurt, Taylor will be back in there, and he may be in there for a while. Simply put, the O line excuses won't hold nearly as much water this time around. Taylor has managed just fine behind this banged up line. The line is still clearly not good, but he has been more than functional out there as a 30-something journeyman backup making $5.5mm. So there really are no excuses for Jones to continue to be totally ineffective, which, save for two quarters in Arizona, he absolutely has been to this point.

Spot-on, Jeff; I also don't believe it's a coincidence the Oline and WRs have started to look better with TT under center vice DJ.  It's a bit odd that ans blame the Oline for poor QB play, without acknowledging it's a symbiotic relationship; in short, the oline is as dependent on the QB, as the QB is on the oline.  Also, the notion the coaches are finally using WRs like Hyatt differently is only true to a point; I believe the bigger difference is TT is more willing to the throw the ball into tight windows and deep. Hyatt, snaps have indeed increased from 60, 46, 73, 71 percent over the last four weeks; however, even when he played 60% of the offensive snaps in week four, he was only targeted 2x, with the longest attempt being 7 yards.  In short, the improved QB play has yielded a better product on the field, even with 4/5 of the offensive line injured.  Having said that, DJ will continue to start if he's healthy; however, as Kat pointed out above, the fan base won't tolerate the same play we've endured the first five weeks, and we've all witness how well DJ handles pressure.  This paradigm could exaggerate the situation

[B1GBLUE]

Taylor started 2 games with Saquon as his RB and averaged 11.5 points per game.

If that is the impetus for a QB controversy, this team is far more flawed than it looks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I think this is an important factor. its not like we are putting up dolphins level yards and points. The oline is starting to play a little better finally, (and i dont think tyrod has as much to do with that as some will point out), saquon is back, and maybe im reaching here, but it seems like kafka is finally getting creative ONLY after jones went down. AND playing hyatt more. Not to diminish what tyrod is doing out there. its only fair to say he's playing better. but i have to question is that because the TEAM is finally playing better.

Right now, you dont let a guy you just gave a huge contract to ride the bench. You just dont. But, if we put jones back out there, and he gets the same level of protection, the same barkley, the same play calling, etc... and he STILL stinks it up? I have no problem going back to tyrod at that point. Jones has had many excuses, and fair ones at that, but he does have PLENTY of his own warts. I actually think him getting injured was a good thing for him. Theres no way he can sit there watching these games and think to himself he has looked better than tyrod. hopefully that lights a fire under his rear end. Sometimes its good to take a breather and look from the outside in.

Sorry for the long winded answer, but the answer to this question is... Yes. We do have a qb controversy. The only thing that will change that is if when jones comes back, he puts up respectable starting qb numbers. I mean consistent 250 yrd, 2 td games most of the time. no more of this 160 yards, 0 td's. He needs to step it up, regardless of whats going on around him. Or else his time here is done.

[babywhales]

I do not think there is a controversy simply because of the contract and Jones's draft position.  The Giants have too much invested in Jones, they have to provide him every opportunity to succeed.  Eventually Schoen and Daboll aren't going to let Jones sink their careers with his; however, I do not think they are there yet.

That being said TT is a journeyman back up and is doing some of the key processing jobs better than the 5th year 1st RD draft pick.  TT is also making throws that Jones would either miss or let's be honest would not even throw. Last week TT had the second most pressure since Game 1 in Dallas so it's not as simple as better O line protection.

As I said last week I would very much like to see Jones play again. He should be the starter, he needs to prove himself.
He must play with some urgency, see if he can make the correct reads and adjustments, can he quickly identify the open receiver and push the ball downfield when it is needed.

Jones is down to 27 games left as a giant it's time to play like your job and existence on the team is dependent on it.

[MightyGiants]

Would you agree that if Jones comes back and looks like he has looked for the vast majority of this year that there might then be a controversy (as far as 2023 goes)?

If Jones returns and the offense looks dysfunctional again for a game or two, there would be a controversy. 

[T200]

You play Taylor out of pride for your team.

@DaveBrown74 and I discussed this today privately, as good as it would be for us to lose out so we can get a guy, neither him nor I can actively root against the team and want them to win every game even if that hurts our chances at a guy.

If we want to continue winning I think Taylor is a no brainer.

The last group of truly elite qbs were all drafted by teams that made the playoffs the year they drafted them Mahomes, Allen,or to a less extent Purdy, and Hurts. tanking doesn't give us the best chance to succeed in my opinion, it fractures the young pieces you already have.

Let the coaches coach to win and try to win then let the gm do what he gets paid for and make moves in the offseason to make sure we get a guy.

For right now ie the rest of this season Taylor gives you the best chance. No he's not the answer long term but neither is Jones after 5 years.

Once these coaches lose the locker room it's over, and after the performance the team has put up the past two games you can tell who the players feel more comfortable with imo.

You make a good case for Taylor. I don't mind seeing him start the rest of the season. However, I do have a couple of points to counter:

1) Playing Jones instead of Taylor doesn't equate to rooting against the G-Men or wanting/expecting them to lose.

2) Playing Taylor instead of Jones doesn't mean that the Giants will keep winning.

I do agree that Taylor gives the offense better opportunities to push the ball downfield and score points. But nothing is guaranteed in the NFL. He has done well with his two starts this season but as more teams see how he plays with this team, they will counter. And there will be no counter by Kafka. That's my biggest concern.

If Jones and Taylor were getting paid relatively the same amount, I'd say roll with Taylor. But they can't ignore the amount of money invested in Jones and have him sit if he's healthy. It's financially irresponsible to pay a guy 40 million to sit on his ass every week. And they aren't going to get rid of him next season either.