Is Bill Belichick the GOAT?

[LennG]

Not according to this article. Seems BB is being described as mediocre and only won because of Brady, thoughts also echoed by former players.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ex-patriots-star-bill-belichick-is-absolutely-not-greatest-coach-ever/ar-AA1e1x2J

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bill-belichicks-record-without-tom-brady-how-legendary-patriots-coach-has-fared-before-after-divorce-with-qb/ar-AA1iceYF

Did he win because of Brady or is BB responsible for making Brady-Brady?

Myse lf, I find him hardly mediocre as he has one of the best defensive minds in football. He is accused of being tart with the press, yes, he has never been known as Mr. Personality. His drafts have been less than stellar, but when it came to FA, he seemed to know who to pick up and when to release players, sometimes not to their liking.

It is hard to win without a decent QB as we have already found out (too many times).

Is he the GOAT, maybe, but there have been others who could also claim that title.

MVHO I would classify him as great, but I have always felt Bill Parcels was better. Many great coaches have won because they had the best players and/or QBs, like Lombardi, Bill Walsh, and Chuck Knoll. I would say guys like Shula, who won in several places, Parcels, Landy, and several others are just as good, if not better than Belichick.

[BluesCruz]

Vinny Lombardi is the GOAT

No question about it but Bill Belichick is terrific too

Brady or no Brady

[uconnjack8]

Was is Brady who held the greatest show on turf to 17? 

Was it Brady who held the Rams to 3 in a Super Bowl?

If it was just Brady, than why didnt other all time great QBs win more Super Bowls?

Did Brady leas the Patriots to n 11-5 record when he was out for a season?

Winning a Super Bowl is incredibly difficult maintaining that and winning the divison every year for over a decade along with 5 more Super Bowls is unreal. 

How many assistants left the Patriots and they were able to continue to win?

It takes more than one player (and one coach) to win like they did. 

[Philosophers]

Vinny Lombardi is the GOAT

No question about it but Bill Belichick is terrific too

Brady or no Brady

How is Vince Lombardi the GOAT when he won significantly less Super Bowls and played in an era in which players could not leave via free agency?

[Doc16LT56]

Belichick is the GOAT. It goes beyond his genius with x's and o's. He's a true CEO of a football operation who has a true vision and is able to execute on that vision in a coherent and effective way.

The truly great head coaches are primarily focused on being great leaders. Most head coaches today seem more like coordinators doing the HC job. They are primarily focused on game plans and play calling, rather than more comprehensive leadership. So they fall short of the CEO role.

There aren't that many head coaches who are real CEOs in the league today. Parcells was one. Bill Walsh was one. Walsh never won without Montana but that doesn't diminish how great he was.

What separates Belichick is he has the longest run of winning Super Bowls. I'm not sure if he's gotten long in the tooth now but I think a lot of the problems in New England have to do with the QB position. I don't know what went wrong with Mac Jones. I think if they had a better QB, New England is not that far away from being a serious contender.

[Painter]

What else is there to quibble and fart about other than herding GOATs? While it's just one of those shits about which I don't give, Belichick has already achieved far more than most in being only one of two in the discussion whether as GOAT or GOAT herder. Personally, I'll be more interested in what he and Brady before him, has to say at their HOF induction.

Cheers!


And what's that old notion that you are what your record says you are???

[ozzie]

The last few seasons have been tough, but in my opinion,  yes, BB is without question, the GOAT. 20 years of being at or near the top of the league. Still a brilliant defensive mind and closing in on the all time wins record.

[y_so_blu]

I don't know. He's one of them, I suppose. Certainly he was the GOAT defensive coordinator, and he was still a very effective defensive guru in his early years with the Patriots. Later on, that effectiveness diminished and they were more dependent on Brady to help them pull through.

There's no way they win Super Bowl 36 without Belichick, but it's equally true that they would have lost 51 without Brady. And with Brady gone, Belichick has just one winning season with full control of the team. Hard to ignore.

[spiderblue43]

Vinny Lombardi is the GOAT

No question about it but Bill Belichick is terrific too

Brady or no Brady

Don't forget Paul Brown..who changed how football was organized.

[BluesCruz]

Don't forget Paul Brown..who changed how football was organized.

There was a reason they put his name on the Trophy.

He was not only a great technical coach.  It was his ability to motivate and inspire his players that sets him apart from Belicheck.  Bill just does not have that motivational component to the extent Lombardi did.  Not saying he has none just not the same drive Lombardi extracted

Lombardi came from the NY Giants tree of coaches
Started in NJ as a HC for a catholic high school not far from the meadowlands

[Ed Vette]

Belichick without Brady and Brady without BB would not have sustained such a long streak of success. Both great in their own right. They are joined at the hip just like other HC and QB Duos in the Super Bowl era.

Certainly, Walsh-Montana, Parcells-Simms, Jimmy Johnson-Troy Aik, Coughlin-Eli, Shula-Griese, and I can go on and on... 

The BB and TB team were the greatest.

[MightyGiants]

Quarterbacks are so overhyped that even NFL players have bought into it.   The reality is that Belichick already had 2 SB rings as DC with the Giants (his work as DC was definitely a major reason for the Giants first two SB trophies).

It's Tom Brady, Tom Brady, and Tom Brady

Nobody seems to notice that in NE, Belichick won all of his SB trophies with offensive line coach Dante Scarnecchia, either as the O-line coach or as a consultant.   Offensive lines are just as important as QB in my position, and Belichick was helped tremendously by one of perhaps the greatest of all time.


To answer the question, I don't even think it's up for debate.  Bill Belichick is absolutely the GOAT.  No other coach has as many championships and has been able to coach both offense and defense as he has.   One thing worth noting is that Bill rarely overwhelmed other teams with talent; he did it with great coaching.

Yes, Tom Brady won another Super Bowl with a very talented and well-coached Tampa team, but that proves NOTHING in terms of Bill Belichick.

On top of that people FORGET that Bill Belichick developed a 6th round QB into one of the greatest QBs of all time, that is yet another huge point in favor of BB's GOAT resume

[Philosophers]

Quarterbacks are so overhyped that even NFL players have bought into it.   The reality is that Belichick already had 2 SB rings as DC with the Giants (his work as DC was definitely a major reason for the Giants first two SB trophies).

It's Tom Brady, Tom Brady, and Tom Brady

No buddy seems to notice that in NE, Belichick won all of his SB trophies with offensive line coach Dante Scarnecchia, either as the O-line coach or as a consultant.   Offensive lines are just as important as QB in my position, and Belichick was helped tremendously by one of perhaps the greatest of all time.


To answer the question, I don't even think it's up for debate.  Bill Belichick is absolutely the GOAT.  No other coach has as many championships and has been able to coach both offense and defense as he has.   One thing worth noting is that Bill rarely overwhelmed other teams with talent; he did it with great coaching.

Yes, Tom Brady won another Super Bowl with a very talented and well-coached Tampa team, but that proves NOTHING in terms of Bill Belichick.

On top of that people FORGET that Bill Belichick developed a 6th round QB into one of the greatest QBs of all time, that is yet another huge point in favor of BB's GOAT resume

Well reasoned post Rich.

Pro QB folks seem to think TB just showed off his NFL skills by himself but the reality is that coaches developed him up and his skills matured.  You never hear Brady say, "I'm here because of my talent."

[andrew_nyGiants]

He's definitely my GOAT for Super Bowls 21,25,42,& 46


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[LennG]

 If we are just counting championships, BB has to win, hands down. But, as I said in my OP, coaches like Bill Parcels have won wherever they were. They might not have won the ultimate prize, a Super Bowl everywhere, but he has taken 4 different teams, (Giants, Pats, Jets, and Cowpukes) to championship games when he started from scratch. I think coaches like him love the challenge more than just the trophy. Parcels started with garbage and in 2-3 years turned out teams ready for championships.
A coach like Don Shula, who has won more games than any other coach, has taken 2 different teams to SB's how can he not be considered the GOAT? Is it just the championships that determine it all?