Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 28, 2022, 03:05:40 PMYou should factor them in because you are citing stats generated with their play.  The 70+ guys account for less than 31% of the receiving snaps.  It explain why PFF grades appear better than the WAR

No I'm not. You're trying to use this data to perpetuate the narrative DJ is doing this himself. However, the entity who complied the data you're presenting, also states 3 or DJs current 5 starting skill position players are above average. In order for the WAR to work, we have to include players injured several weeks ago, or have been active for limited games.  You don't see a problem with any of this?  At best, the WAR tells us he stated with substandard help, but it's vastly improved over the last 5 weeks.  It also tells us the Giants aren't a deeply talented team., which we already know. What it doesn't say iss DJ starting WRs are terrible; in fact, PFF. and NGS state the opposite.  So, if you're asking people to accept the validity of the WAR, than you must also accept the validity of PFF wr rankings. 

Quote from: kingm56 on December 28, 2022, 03:24:18 PMNo I'm not. You're trying to use this data to perpetuate the narrative DJ is doing this himself. However, the entity who complied the data you're presenting, also states 4 or DJs current 5 starting skill position players are above average. In order for the WAR to work, we have to include players who have been injured several weeks ago, or haven't been active for weeks.  You don't see a problem with any of this?  At best, the WAR tells us he stated with substandard help, but it's vastly improved over the last 5 weeks.

Here are Danial Jones' grades for the last 4 games

68.4
78.0
75.8
85.3

Could those better receivers also be part of the reason DJ's PFF grade has improved from his baseline 74.9?

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 28, 2022, 03:28:55 PMHere are Danial Jones' grades for the last 4 games

68.4
78.0
75.8
85.3

Could those better receivers also be part of the reason DJ's PFF grade has improved from his baseline 74.9?

I was told you don't use PFF grades in a vacuum to judge QB. I was told you use a combination of PFF, RTG and QBR. The latter two suggest an average performance over the last 5 weeks.

If you want me to use just PFF ratings, you just nullified your entire narrative, as according to PFF, DJ is surrounded by ample talent,

Quote from: kingm56 on December 28, 2022, 03:37:34 PMI was told you don't use PFF grades in a vacuum to judge QB. I was told you use a combination of PFF, RTG and QBR. The latter two suggest an average performance over the last 5 weeks.

If you want me to use just PFF ratings, you just nullified your entire narrative, as according to PFF, DJ is surrounded by ample talent,  This is the issue you'll continue to face when you start with a conclusion and work backwards...

Over the past 4 games (the same span I used with PFF), Jones' QBR and QB rating exceeded his career average 3 out of the 4 games, just like with his PFF grade.   Still, this conversation was specifically about PFF grades for receivers so that is why I used the same measure for Jones (not that it mattered, as I pointed out)

What is with the rest of your post?   What is it with the Jones critics?  Why are you guys always trying to make it personal?

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 28, 2022, 03:28:55 PMHere are Danial Jones' grades for the last 4 games

68.4
78.0
75.8
85.3

Could those better receivers also be part of the reason DJ's PFF grade has improved from his baseline 74.9?

Wouldn't that mean our WRs aren't bad then and that they are elevating the play of DJ?

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on December 28, 2022, 04:04:43 PMWouldn't that mean our WRs aren't bad then and that they are elevating the play of DJ?

Considering that Jones is working with 2 low-end free agents and a 5th round pick who took a pay cut to stay with the team, it's far more likely that Jones is elevating the play of the receivers

Quote from: kingm56 on December 28, 2022, 03:37:34 PMI was told you don't use PFF grades in a vacuum to judge QB. I was told you use a combination of PFF, RTG and QBR. The latter two suggest an average performance over the last 5 weeks.

If you want me to use just PFF ratings, you just nullified your entire narrative, as according to PFF, DJ is surrounded by ample talent,

No King you only use PFF grades when they are good for Daniel Jones.  If they say he isn't good then you don't look at them in a vacuum. 

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 28, 2022, 04:07:55 PMNo King you only use PFF grades when they are good for Daniel Jones. If they say he isn't good then you don't look at them in a vacuum. 

Rambo,

I am curious how this claim is true since both QBR and QB ratings match the PFF grades in that 3 out of 4 of DJ's final games he exceeded his season grades.   Please explain

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on December 28, 2022, 04:04:43 PMWouldn't that mean our WRs aren't bad then and that they are elevating the play of DJ?

Let's look the top 5 offenses

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on December 28, 2022, 04:04:43 PMWouldn't that mean our WRs aren't bad then and that they are elevating the play of DJ?

Let's look at, IMO, The top 7 passing offenses in the NFL

Bills, KC, Cincy, TB, Minny, Dallas, and SD

Who does James, Hodgins, Slayton, and Bellinger start for?

Quote from: AP44 on December 28, 2022, 04:32:47 PMLet's look the top 5 offenses
Let's look at, IMO, The top 7 passing offenses in the NFL

Bills, KC, Cincy, TB, Minny, Dallas, and SD

Who does James, Hodgins, Slayton, and Bellinger start for?

With the exception of Dallas and Minnesota all of those teams have elite level QB's.  Though in Minnesota's case they have a consistently productive QB who has been that throughout his career.

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 28, 2022, 04:41:26 PMWith the exception of Dallas and Minnesota all of those teams have elite level QB's.  Though in Minnesota's case they have a consistently productive QB who has been that throughout his career.

That doesn't answer my question.

Quote from: AP44 on December 28, 2022, 04:47:19 PMThat doesn't answer my question.

To be fair, your reply to my post you quoted, was also completely unrelated to said quoted post

Quote from: AP44 on December 28, 2022, 04:47:19 PMThat doesn't answer my question.

Which one of those teams would Daniel Jones start on?

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 28, 2022, 04:51:43 PMWhich one of those teams would Daniel Jones start on?

So you want to have discussions and debates but when someone poses a simple question about WRs - you turn right into a Daniel Jones debate which sidetracks the original question premise.

Sorry bud, tough to take posts like this serious when you refuse to answer a simple question.

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 28, 2022, 04:51:43 PMWhich one of those teams would Daniel Jones start on?

Dallas and the Vikings are realistic.  Jones could likely match or exceed the QB production if he was put into those support systems