Big Blue Huddle

Would we rather throw the ball all over the field to one of the worst receiving corps in the league just so we can have higher passing stats? Or have a game plan that gives us the best opportunity to win? Last time I checked we are 8-5-1. So do stats really matter?

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 21, 2022, 02:01:36 PMThere is no doubt that Jones is one of the best rushing QB's in the league.  And even factoring in his supporting cast I still don't believe he'll ever be an elite QB.  If he was putting up average middle of the road passing numbers with this then I'd agree about that elite potential.

Agree to disagree on this.

Nothing wrong with this opinion. But if people are going to show why Jones should go and not include rushing stats - thats a bit unfair to him.

Then how would you like a discussion to go? I asked you a very simple question and you were the one who got combative and made unsubstantial claims towards me. If you dont want to discuss a topic and answer questions about your opinion, thats fine. Just let us know.

Once again - the failure to acknowledge supporting casts and DJ's rushing numbers is not being transparent about whats going on with the QB position.

Quote from: kingm56 on December 20, 2022, 11:02:54 PMAlex Smith was a pro bowl, above-average QB, that TWO teams replaced while he in his prime.  Each team made the SB the year following Smith.  That's the point, in the modern era, you're unlikely to win SBs with a mid-tier guy.  If it were up to Todge, they would have stuck with Alex Smith.  To be clear, I understand circumstances (e.g. terrible 2022 QB draft class and relative 2023 draft standing) may dictate franchising, transition tagging, or offering a 2/3 year deal; however, that's not what many are advocating for...they want a multi-year, franchise-type deal.  I'm opposed to that strategy.

BTW, Mahomes wasn't the final piece, he IS the piece...he's what makes it go.  KC has literally flipped 90% of the roster between Mahomes first year and this year.  The WR corps is 100% different, with only Kelce remaining.  If you get the right QB, you're going to win, independent of the majority of the surrounding cast.  Like the Pats with Brady, KC will be competitive every year Mahomes is under center, with or without a big name WR and/or stud LT.

If there's a Patrick Mahomes that Schoen and Dabol think is in this draft - then of course you let Jones walk and go through hell and high water to get Mahomes.

But if they don't think there is - continue to build the team. That's why if Jones is signed to a short deal (no more than 2 years) - you can still get better and still get the QB in the near future.

Now let's say they think Richardson or Levis is THAT guy - then go get them. I am ruling out Young and Stroud cause I don't think they are in reach.

Quote from: kingm56 on December 20, 2022, 10:19:20 PMSo, the Giants should stick with a mid-tier QB because of fear they might draft the wrong guy?  Great, we'll hold on to our guy while those teams with a top tier QB (e.g. KC, Phili, Cinci, and Buff) play championship football every year.  It's a good thing you weren't KCs GM when they decided to move on from Alex Smith and draft Mahomes. Under your strategy, that would have never happened; same with Phili and Balt,  In fact, I can't think of a team in the last decade that kept thier mid-tier QB who won a SB, or played consistent football.  Staying with a known commodity out of fear is not an effective strategy and will ultimately get you fired...

KC built their team up and added Mahoney as the final piece. In fact, smith was a playoff QB. We can do the same thing as they did. Sign Jones for two years and see if there's a QB worth taking. And don't forget Mahomes sat an entire year. The KC model you referenced is actually a method worth following and keeping Jones would be a part of it.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 20, 2022, 08:51:15 PMRegardless of whether you think so or not, Brissett, Tyrod, Mayfield etc are right with Jones. Jones has managed some games well but only about 60% this season. we're not winning Because of him, we could bring In any of Mayfield, Brisset, Jimmy G, or a rookie to replicate 160-190 yards a game.

You're stating this as it's a fact. It's not. We could actually be much worse with them. Again, you're ignoring supporting casts and not even bringing Jones rushing into the fold.

I am always weary of building through FA. That's how you get Nate solders, Kenny golladays of the world. Building through the draft is a much better idea.

And remember just because we may want a guy at a certain position - doesn't mean they want us. A player may see us getting rid of our two best skill offensive players and look the other way.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 20, 2022, 08:28:45 PMIf the surrounding cast is so important as you clearly think it is why would we then pay Jones. In that scenario we would let Tyrod or one of those cheaper qbs play and build up the surrounding cast?? See how the argument falls apart? Because If we pay Jones 25-30 million a year we can't afford to go out and retool the entire wr core..

No it doesn't fall apart because Jones is better than Taylor.

And yes we can still retool - our cap is in amazing shape and we have the draft still.

I still haven't seen someone give a viable options to improve the QB. Journeyman QBs, washed up QBs, aren't appeasing. If you want to go through the draft? Great. But you'll have to give up a lot to get a guy to come in right away and play or else you're letting a kid and learn. Which isn't a bad idea if we sign Jones to a two year deal.

The Bellinger throw was not a drop nor a great pass either. However one thing I'd like Bellinger to learn with experience - as he is cutting in, to look for the ball as he cutting. It may have given him a better chance to catch it.

But it certainly wasn't that great of a pass.

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on December 20, 2022, 07:44:49 PMHow do you know they aren't lateral moves?  No one is trying to change your opinions on DJ yet you continue to try to pick a fight. You can think he is the future, I can think he isn't, and the world will go round all the same.

1. Asking a question isn't picking a fight.
2. Never once did I say he was the future as a matter of fact I've said plenty of times I would not sign him to anything more than a 2 year deal.
3. I seriously doubt you know what my opinion of him is.

How do we know Brisset and Taylor are lateral moves? Brisset never has been good. Are you just looking at stats or did you watch him extensively this year?

I mean this coaching staff doesn't think Taylor is as good or better cause there was never a QB competition.

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 20, 2022, 05:43:24 PMAgree to disagree.  Appreciate the response.

No worries. I just don't see why posters want to downgrade at QB. I am at no liberty of giving Jones a 4-5 year deal. But a two year deal still lets you draft a qb and still build the team.

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on December 20, 2022, 05:49:15 PMHarsh? That is your opinion, if you think differently, you are certainly entitled to that. To each their own.

Yeah harsh. The guy account for 93 yards on the drive but shouldn't get that much credit? Lol.

That's like saying Barkley taking one 90 yards to the 3 yard line but since Jones took it in the next play that Barkley shouldn't get any credit either... haha

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 20, 2022, 04:55:35 PMIf it came down to either those guys or giving Jones a contract that paid him $25-$30+ million AAV would you do it?  Obviously a hypothetical

Yes I'd take Jones at somewhere around 25 million over those guys but nothing more than 2 years.