Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 04, 2024, 11:38:19 AMThe best players get paid a lot more than the best coaches, and, unlike coaches, players are bound by a salary cap so it's even harder to pay them than it is coaches.

Could this discrepancy between player and coach pay be because players are more valuable, or is it because the people who run NFL teams and have spent their whole careers and almost their whole lives deeply involved in this sport are all lost and just don't get it?

Tangible vs the intangible.  Teachers are some of the most important people in the entire world yet look at their salaries lol

Quote from: Stringer Bell on May 04, 2024, 11:42:59 AMThis is one of the biggest blind spots for arm chair GMs. There being a market for someone jn getting a contract and there being a market for someone willing to trade draft picks and pay a guy are 2 completely different things.

Are you suggesting you are coming from the perspective of an actual or former NFL GM? 


A player like Barkley had value for a team in the playoff hunt looking to get an edge by boosting their running game down the home stretch

Quote from: Stringer Bell on May 04, 2024, 11:42:59 AMThis is one of the biggest blind spots for arm chair GMs.

Unlike you. A REAL general manager. You have special insights no doubt. Smh.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on May 04, 2024, 10:15:34 AMYep. There was absolutely a market for Barkley. Not trading him during the season seemed odd. In hindsight it looks even worse.

This is one of the biggest blind spots for arm chair GMs. There being a market for someone jn getting a contract and there being a market for someone willing to trade draft picks and pay a guy are 2 completely different things.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 04, 2024, 11:38:19 AMThe best players get paid a lot more than the best coaches, and, unlike coaches, players are bound by a salary cap so it's even harder to pay them than it is coaches.

Could this discrepancy between player and coach pay be because players are more valuable, or is it because the people who run NFL teams and have spent their whole careers and almost their whole lives deeply involved in this sport are all lost and just don't get it?

I was taught price was determined by supply and demand, not by the perceived "value" of the goods or service

 a new bunch of 'truisms'


When a kid says "Daddy, I want mommy" that's the kid version of "I'd like to speak to your supervisor".

If Adam and Eve had been really smart, they'd have eaten the snake instead of the apple and saved us all a lot of trouble.

We celebrated our anniversary last night with a couple of adult beverages ..Metamucil and Ensure.

Weight loss goal: To be able to clip my toenails and breathe at the same time.

After watching how some people wore their covid masks, I understand why contraception devices fail.

Some of my friends exercise every day. Meanwhile I'm watching a show I don't like because the remote fell on the floor.

For those of you that don't want Alexa or Siri listening in on your conversation, they're making a male version ...it doesn't listen to anything.

Now that Covid has everyone washing their hands correctly ...next week: Turn Signals.

Someone said, "Nothing rhymes with orange."  I said, "No, it doesn't."

The pessimist complains about the wind.  The optimist expects it to change.  The realist adjusts his sails.

There's a fine line between a numerator and a denominator. Only a fraction of people will find this funny.

Reading gives us someplace to go when we have to stay where we are.

I have many hidden talents. I just wish I could remember where I hid them.

My idea of a Super Bowl is a toilet that cleans itself.

Exercise helps you with decision-making. It's true. I went for a run this morning and decided I'm never going again.

Quote from: Rosehill Jimmy on May 03, 2024, 05:11:13 PMAgree with most said here about DS. If there is a reasonable $ number for a guy that still drops too many passes for my liking, go for it

He's gotten better over time. The thing is, once you get tagged with the moniker "drops passes", every drop is magnified a thousand times so fans can reaffirm their belief and boast that "they knew it" and "they told you so". Yet Slayton actually had fewer drops (percentage wise) than most of the WRs in the league, including J. Smith-Njigba, S. Diggs, M. Evans, G. Wilson...and in fact, didn't even make the top 25 players in the NFL for drop percentage. Last season, Slayton had 3 drops and 50 catches https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?category=receiving&season=2023&seasonType=reg&sort=rec_drops&sortOrder=desc

It's sorta like DJ and turnovers. In 2022, when he was called a "turnover machine", he was ridiculed incessantly for a turnover as it verified fans' negative opinions of him. Yet, he only had 8 turnovers in 17 games. Compare that with Dak who had 16 TOs in 12 games, or compared with Josh Allen's 19 TOs etc. Yet, every turnover by DJ brings out the haters who say, "see what I told you???". Meanwhile, Dak is being touted as a "franchise QB" by the media

Once something gets stuck in a fan's mind, they watch for, and keep track of, and magnify every fault to confirm their staunch beliefs. Fans can be brutal...especially when vying to prove they know more than others about the game and team

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 04, 2024, 10:09:05 AMDid you see what Barkley was paid? 

I did. What does that have to do with a team's willingness to give up draft picks AND pay him?

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 04, 2024, 11:22:54 AMI am afraid I can't agree with your assertion. If I were to put it in simple terms of who is more important, coaches or talent, I would put it at about even. Still, I think to appreciate the situation fully, it's important to appreciate the interaction between coaching and talent. Great coaching will make their talent look better than it is through superior player development and putting players in a position to thrive (as well as optimal motivation), and vice versa for poor coaching.

The best players get paid a lot more than the best coaches, and, unlike coaches, players are bound by a salary cap so it's even harder to pay them than it is coaches.

Could this discrepancy between player and coach pay be because players are more valuable, or is it because the people who run NFL teams and have spent their whole careers and almost their whole lives deeply involved in this sport are all lost and just don't get it?

Quote from: kingm56 on May 04, 2024, 06:31:52 AMDid you bother researching your own question? Clearly not...

Eli Manning
Without Question, Eli's best season was 2011, the only year he received All-Pro votes, was a Pro Bowler, and won a SB.  That year, PFF ranked the NYG Giants Oline #31 (#32 pass protection).  His running game was dead-last...he and JPP carried that team to the playoffs.
 
Here's the exert from PFF:

Yes, they won the Super Bowl, but they did so in spite of a line that sieved pressure throughout the year. Our lowest-ranked pass protecting line had problems all over, but nowhere as bad as at the tackle positions (especially once Will Beatty was lost for the year). It wasn't just the tackles however, with every member of the Giants' line earning a negative grade. This explains the drop-off in the run game and makes the season that Eli Manning had all the more remarkable.

Best Player: Before his season was cut short, Will Beatty (-1.2) was having a good first year starting ... outside of Trent Cole showing him what for in Week 11.

Worst Player: It's hard to look past David Diehl (-48.1) who was terrible at guard, and even worse at tackle. His on field performance is simply unacceptable, giving up a ridiculous nine sacks, eight hits and 48 hurries during the regular season.

Tom Brady
It's complete myth Tom Brady enjoyed top-tier protection throughout his career.  In 2014, 15 and 16, the onlines were bad...REAL BAD.  During that span, he continued to play at an AP/MVP level,.

Enjoy the PFF exerts:

2014:
23. New England Patriots

Pass Blocking Ranking: 31st, Run Blocking Ranking: 8th, Penalties Ranking: 19th

Stud: Our second-team All-Pro right tackle Sebastian Vollmer had himself another good year and avoided the injury bug for a change. Bonus.

Dud: The 306 snaps that Jordan Devey managed were brutal to watch at times. Not much of a pass blocker, he didn't exactly light it up in the run game either.

Breakdown: Nate Solder had a bad year by his standards and the interior gave up way too much pressure. They did bloody some rookies, but this group appeared a unit in transition, with the team trying to patch up something just good enough to not harm their skill players too much.

2015:
25. NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS
Pass-blocking rank: 31st

Run-blocking rank: 12th

Penalties rank: 15th

Stud: Far from perfect, but Josh Kline looked the part when he got on the field.

Dud: Pick your poison here. None were truly atrocious, but most were well below average. None more so than Cameron Fleming, who allowed way too much pressure.

Summary: The good news is that, where they struggle (pass protection), they have a quarterback good enough to overcome it. But it was still so bad that you wonder how much easier (and better) life for Tom Brady could have been with better protection.
 
"I think we've established how atrocious the New England Patriots offensive line performed in 2015. Almost every single player to suit up on the line was hurt for some extended period of time, and the team had to rely on a series of young, inexperienced, and hurt players to protect the best player in the NFL."

According to Pro Football Focus, the Patriots offensive line ranked 31st in the league in pass protection, ahead of only the San Diego Chargers.
 
Key Takeaways:
1. Both the 2015 Pats and 2011 Giants won SBs with PFFs 31st and 32 ranked pass blocking olines
2. Prime Eli Manning was absolutely capable, and DID, overcome terrible oline play
3. Tom Brady was an MVP/AP/SP Winner with the NFLs "31 ranked pass protection
4. Tom Brady was capable of making his Line look better than they were
   2007: Brady was sacked 21 times
   2008: Brady injured, Matt Cassel was sacked 47 times with the same Oline and Coach
   2009: Brady returns and the line reverts to allowing just 16 sacks; funny how that works
5. Over the past few months, I've watched fans incorrectly attribute sacks allowed to the Oline, without giving any consideration to the QB; QBs who process poorly are sacked more...is that really a surprise?

I could provide a lot more data points, but I know your mind is made up and no amount of objective or subjective data will change it.  Regardless, your statement regarding Eli's and Brady's reliance on the oline has objectively been proven false. 

Matt

 Just an excellent post to show that QBs CAN perform with a very subpar OL. For all the excuses Jones has had for the past 4-5 years that he needs a great OL to become a real NFL QB, we have seen many instances of QBs having banner years when, in fact, their OL sucked.
Thanks for this great post.