Big Blue Huddle

General Category => Big Blue Huddle => Topic started by: MightyGiants on May 07, 2024, 10:53:41 AM

Title: Giants rookie CB Andru Phillips:
Post by: MightyGiants on May 07, 2024, 10:53:41 AM
https://x.com/Anthony_Rivardo/status/1787855388848566516
Title: Re: Giants rookie CB Andru Phillips:
Post by: madbadger on May 07, 2024, 11:04:14 AM
He is an intriguing prospect but for him to have 0 ints in college is a huge red flag for me. Cedrick Dort, Wisconsin's worst starting cornerback the past 20 years managed to pick off one despite having hands of stone and no ball skills. I don't know how much room there is in the NFL for non ball hawk cover guys there are in the NFL.
Title: Re: Giants rookie CB Andru Phillips:
Post by: MightyGiants on May 07, 2024, 11:20:59 AM
Quote from: madbadger on May 07, 2024, 11:04:14 AMHe is an intriguing prospect but for him to have 0 ints in college is a huge red flag for me. Cedrick Dort, Wisconsin's worst starting cornerback the past 20 years managed to pick off one despite having hands of stone and no ball skills. I don't know how much room there is in the NFL for non ball hawk cover guys there are in the NFL.

The funny thing is that he did have 1 INT, but it was called back due to a penalty (the penalty was not on Phillips).

While I prefer ball-hawks, I have seen DBs who are skilled at preventing completions from doing well.  I think former Giant Adoree Jackson could be an example.
Title: Re: Giants rookie CB Andru Phillips:
Post by: madbadger on May 07, 2024, 11:40:01 AM
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 07, 2024, 11:20:59 AMThe funny thing is that he did have 1 INT, but it was called back due to a penalty (the penalty was not on Phillips).

While I prefer ball-hawks, I have seen DBs who are skilled at preventing completions from doing well.  I think former Giant Adoree Jackson could be an example.

Jackson was a ballhawk at USC and fairly good his first couple years in the league. The other concern is that Phillips only had five passes defended last year. His last year at USC Jackson had 11. I hope I am pleasantly surprised but I think his career might be close to Darnay Holmes than to Jackson's.
Title: Re: Giants rookie CB Andru Phillips:
Post by: MightyGiants on May 07, 2024, 11:49:07 AM
Quote from: madbadger on May 07, 2024, 11:40:01 AMJackson was a ballhawk at USC and fairly good his first couple years in the league. The other concern is that Phillips only had five passes defended last year. His last year at USC Jackson had 11. I hope I am pleasantly surprised but I think his career might be close to Darnay Holmes than to Jackson's.

MB,

In Adoree's three years with the Giants he had all of two INTs.  That isn't exactly "ball-hawk" material.  Hell, in his entire 7 year career he has only 4 INTs.
Title: Re: Giants rookie CB Andru Phillips:
Post by: B1GBLUE on May 07, 2024, 12:22:47 PM
At least he can tackle. if you cant give me picks, at least make a sure tackle. lot of cb's get 2-3 lucky int's a year and miss dozens of tackles. break up plays, and keep your guy from getting YAC. im ok with this from a 3rd round pick.
Title: Re: Giants rookie CB Andru Phillips:
Post by: GloryDays on May 07, 2024, 12:36:26 PM
Andru hands-of-stone Phillips
Title: Re: Giants rookie CB Andru Phillips:
Post by: Jolly Blue Giant on May 07, 2024, 12:42:52 PM
There's plus/minus advantages to being a "ball hawk". A true ball hawk is always aware of the ball...more so than the player he's supposed to guard. Those who aren't ball hawks, tend to pay super close attention to the receiver to stop him from catching the ball, it is first and foremost in their repertoire (enter Andru Phillips a "sticky CB")

Last year, I was sold on Emmanuel Forbes Jr., even though he was very skinny and not a physical back. I wanted him for our first round draft pick, but he was already gone to the Commanders when we were on the clock. I remember groaning as I watched his name come off the board. Well, anyway, he was so bad in his rookie year that he was benched halfway through the season. With a PFF grade of about 50, he had a total of 1 takeaway for the year, whilst allowing 37 catches for 598 yards and three touchdowns in an abbreviated season (for him)

Previous write-up on Forbes (before the draft): "Emmanuel Forbes Jr. is one of the best ball-hawking cornerbacks in college football history, as he had 14 interceptions and ran an FBS record six back for a touchdown during his three seasons at Mississippi State...". But (and that's a big "but"), the NFL is a different animal than college. WRs are fully aware of all the tactics used by CBs and know how to mess up "ball hawks" who don't pay enough attention to the receiver's moves and pay too much attention to the ball

Suffice it to say, Dan Quinn was not happy with Forbes' performance. Whether or not Quinn can turn Forbes around is yet to be seen
Title: Re: Giants rookie CB Andru Phillips:
Post by: MightyGiants on May 07, 2024, 01:11:58 PM
https://x.com/Schmeelk/status/1787883501049577680
Title: Re: Giants rookie CB Andru Phillips:
Post by: MightyGiants on May 07, 2024, 03:00:22 PM
Early third-round defensive back choice Dru Phillips always seemed destined for Day 2, but a few scouts had a late-first-round grade on him — and one of the reasons was his football acumen. Multiple teams told me Phillips' combine interview was among their very best thanks to his ability to see the game and grasp defensive concepts.

https://www.bigblueview.com/2024/5/7/24151160/report-giants-had-usc-running-back-targeted-in-2024-nfl-draft?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_medium=social&utm_content=bigblueview&utm_source=twitter
Title: Re: Giants rookie CB Andru Phillips:
Post by: Bob In PA on May 07, 2024, 07:05:29 PM
This is my sleeper pick of the Giants' draft. Taken in the third round, he is definitely not a "leftover."

He has more brains than flash, but I'll take a boring CD every time. Just show up, shut up and do your job.

Barring injury, IMO he's the guy on the Giants most likely to have a long career (and then become a coach).

Bob
Title: Re: Giants rookie CB Andru Phillips:
Post by: Philosophers on May 08, 2024, 10:11:25 AM
Given how bad they were, Giants need real production from say 4 draft picks for a) this draft to be considered very successful and b) to help get out of the sub 0.500 doldrums.

Nabers - easy pick
Nubin - likely pick
Phillips - hopeful pick
Johnson - dark horse pick
Tracy - should given poor RB pool on team
Title: Re: Giants rookie CB Andru Phillips:
Post by: MightyGiants on May 08, 2024, 10:19:21 AM
Quote from: Philosophers on May 08, 2024, 10:11:25 AMGiven how bad they were, Giants need real production from say 4 draft picks for a) this draft to be considered very successful and b) to help get out of the sub 0.500 doldrums.

Nabers - easy pick
Nubin - likely pick
Phillips - hopeful pick
Johnson - dark horse pick
Tracy - should given poor RB pool on team

4 out of 6 would be an impressive batting average even for the best GMs
Title: Re: Giants rookie CB Andru Phillips:
Post by: zephirus on May 08, 2024, 11:25:20 AM
I think people are expecting too much production in college for a 3rd round pick.  He's a slot corner - I imagine that plays into the lack of INTs.  Typically the wideouts he'd cover are not deep-speed guys, they're jitter-bug guys with quick acceleration who run digs and slants, maybe a seam route against a zone.   Not exactly routes or throws that are more likely to be picked off.

There's nothing wrong with this for a 3rd round pick.  If he's as studious and aware as advertised, that's a "whole is worth more than the sum of the parts" kind of player that can be a valuable role player.  If there's any concern from me, and it's been echoed around here, isn't this Cordale Flott version 2.0? 
Title: Re: Giants rookie CB Andru Phillips:
Post by: MightyGiants on May 08, 2024, 12:57:58 PM
PFF had listed Phillips as the best 3rd round pick


ROUND 3
PICK 70. NEW YORK GIANTS: CB ANDRU PHILLIPS, KENTUCKY
The Giants drafted Deonte Banks in the first round of last year's draft and now add more youth to that group early in the third round this year. His career-best 23 defensive stops led all SEC cornerbacks in 2023, and his 72.9 PFF coverage grade was also the best mark of his career.

https://www.bigblueview.com/2024/5/8/24152074/pff-names-ny-giants-cornerback-dru-phillips-the-best-pick-of-the-third-round?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=bigblueview
Title: Re: Giants rookie CB Andru Phillips:
Post by: Philosophers on May 08, 2024, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 08, 2024, 10:19:21 AM4 out of 6 would be an impressive batting average even for the best GMs

Every team needs a draft like this once in a while to turn things around.  Look at Rams 2023 draft.
Title: Re: Giants rookie CB Andru Phillips:
Post by: MightyGiants on May 08, 2024, 03:58:52 PM
Quote from: Philosophers on May 08, 2024, 03:58:17 PMEvery team needs a draft like this once in a while to turn things around.  Look at Rams 2023 draft.

Absolutely, the Seahawks were another example
Title: Re: Giants rookie CB Andru Phillips:
Post by: y_so_blu on May 08, 2024, 04:02:17 PM
Phillips defends the slot... Nabers is a superstar at the slot. Looking forward to that matchup in training camp.
Title: Re: Giants rookie CB Andru Phillips:
Post by: AZGiantFan on May 08, 2024, 07:37:05 PM
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 07, 2024, 11:20:59 AMThe funny thing is that he did have 1 INT, but it was called back due to a penalty (the penalty was not on Phillips).

While I prefer ball-hawks, I have seen DBs who are skilled at preventing completions from doing well.  I think former Giant Adoree Jackson could be an example.

This 0 INTs thing seems like a classic case of focusing on a thing a player doesn't do to the exclusion of the many things he does do.

I also don't get why he is being pigeonholed as a slot corner by some when he played more than half his snaps outside.
Title: Re: Giants rookie CB Andru Phillips:
Post by: AZGiantFan on May 08, 2024, 07:38:56 PM
Quote from: B1GBLUE on May 07, 2024, 12:22:47 PMAt least he can tackle. if you cant give me picks, at least make a sure tackle. lot of cb's get 2-3 lucky int's a year and miss dozens of tackles. break up plays, and keep your guy from getting YAC. im ok with this from a 3rd round pick.

And a good tackler helps in run support where they need help more than they need help in takeaways.