For the past couple of years, you have probably heard me talk about my concept of the three pillars of quarterback support- coaching, pass protection, and receiving targets.
This draft season you might have heard me talk about how that infrastructure is a very important part of the success of a drafted QB.
A big smile came across my face when I listened to Daniel Jeremiah's latest national draft conference call.
First, he made reference to the "three Ps of QB support, playing caller, protection, and playmakers."
He also mentioned that in his discussions of teams, they are more focused on whether their team is ready (having the 3 Ps in place) to develop a quarterback if they draft one.
You can listen to the podcast here
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0OFYuhn1SH4N66R1acepfT
How is a strong running game not included?
Quote from: Philosophers on April 18, 2024, 09:17:17 AMHow is a strong running game not included?
I'm guessing it doesn't begin with the letter 'P'... :-??
Quote from: Philosophers on April 18, 2024, 09:17:17 AMHow is a strong running game not included?
I think the benefits of a strong running game are not of the same magnitude as the three Ps. I think perhaps the biggest benefit of a strong running game is that if you have an RB who is more of a consistent yardage generator (that RB who consistently gets 4 or 5 yards), the QB will face less obvious passing situations. This is less of a benefit if the RB is less consistent and has many carries with no (or little yardage) or, worse, negative yardage.
Another thing that one might think would be a benefit, more effective play action plays, has not stood up to study. Analytic people have crunched the numbers and found the benefits of play action are independent of how effective the running game is.
Quote from: T200 on April 18, 2024, 09:19:35 AMI'm guessing it doesn't begin with the letter 'P'... :-??
:funnypost: :laugh: =D>
According to Daniel Jeremiah, his third pillar is "Playmakers" and that would definitely include running backs.
Quote from: WheresDayne on April 18, 2024, 10:59:58 AMAccording to Daniel Jeremiah, his third pillar is "Playmakers" and that would definitely include running backs.
A strong running game also benefits pass protection as it alters how teams defend against you and puts you in fewer third and long obvious blitz situations.
Rich - I simply can't buy that. With a great OL and strong running game you can win with average WRs as they can always eventually get open with great pass blocking. A great running game does not allow a DL to just focus on getting to the QB.
Quote from: Philosophers on April 18, 2024, 11:42:35 AMRich - I simply can't buy that. With a great OL and strong running game you can win with average WRs as they can always eventually get open with great pass blocking. A great running game does not allow a DL to just focus on getting to the QB.
Take Eli Manning:
Here are Manning's stats by year. Consider two years. In 2014, the Giants added OBJ, and in 2018, the Giants added Barkley. Look at Eli's QB rating, and QBR jumps from the two additions. The addition of OBJ had a much greater impact on Eli's production than the addition of Barkley. Be mindful that early in his career, Barkley was a much bigger weapon in the passing game.
(https://i.imgur.com/KQFByl4.png)
The problem in all this is that you can't conveniently put pillars together in the order you might want. If you are drafting high and you need a QB but have weaknesses in the other categories do you pass on the QB, build up those pillars and hope (because that's all you got) that some year you'll find the QB to fit into that program.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 18, 2024, 11:59:15 AMTake Eli Manning:
Here are Manning's stats by year. Consider two years. In 2014, the Giants added OBJ, and in 2018, the Giants added Barkley. Look at Eli's QB rating, and QBR jumps from the two additions. The addition of OBJ had a much greater impact on Eli's production than the addition of Barkley. Be mindful that early in his career, Barkley was a much bigger weapon in the passing game.
(https://i.imgur.com/KQFByl4.png)
Rich - you can't draw a conclusion from one example. The Giants OL when they drafted Barkley was not as effective which was why so many of us were screaming for Nelson to be drafted for OL.
Quote from: Philosophers on April 18, 2024, 09:17:17 AMHow is a strong running game not included?
I could be wrong, but a strong running game is indicative of a(n at least) competent OL which I imagine would carry over to competent pass protection. Are there teams that have a strong running game that have serious pass protection problems? I don't know the answer.
That's a great way of articulating it.
I've been saying this for a long time, in "defense" of Jones.
You can get by with a bad OL and good skill players, or a good OL with bad skill players. But you won't get by with a bad OL & bad skills. NFL is too good for that.
Quote from: 4 Aces on April 18, 2024, 07:01:35 PMThat's a great way of articulating it.
I've been saying this for a long time, in "defense" of Jones.
You can get by with a bad OL and good skill players, or a good OL with bad skill players. But you won't get by with a bad OL & bad skills. NFL is too good for that.
I agree, you can get by if you have least 2 out of 3 of the pillars. It's nearly impossible to get by with one, and it is impossible to get with none.
Quote from: 4 Aces on April 18, 2024, 07:01:35 PMThat's a great way of articulating it.
I've been saying this for a long time, in "defense" of Jones.
You can get by with a bad OL and good skill players, or a good OL with bad skill players. But you won't get by with a bad OL & bad skills. NFL is too good for that.
I do not believe for a second you can get by with a bad OL and good skill position players. The OL drives everything.
Quote from: Philosophers on April 19, 2024, 09:13:30 AMI do not believe for a second you can get by with a bad OL and good skill position players. The OL drives everything.
The Bengals have had sporadic success with this model. In one season, they got all the way to the Super Bowl (but lost). Of course, their quarterback has suffered an above-average number of injuries along the way, so there's that.
There are lots of QBs that produce with bad OLs and good skills. That's all I meant. Herbert has a terrible OL and puts up big numbers too.
Now - if we're talking about team-building and being a Super Bowl contender, I agree 100%. It's no coincidence most of the best teams in the league have good OLs.