Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 27, 2022, 08:32:56 PMYou understand that INT was thrown behind Hodgins not in front of him making what you said make zero sense.

I was saying that it was bad throw by DJ and yes it was behind Hodgins.  He did not lead the WR with that ball.

The point I was making is if it was a more faster WR the coverage would not have been as tight as it was.  Imagine Slayton instead running that route vs an aging Peterson.  Slayton's speed alone would be enough to create separation and at the very least not allow the CB make a play on that ball.

Quote from: GMenRF on December 27, 2022, 08:57:01 PMI was saying that it was bad throw by DJ and yes it was behind Hodgins.  He did not lead the WR with that ball.

The point I was making is if it was a more faster WR the coverage would not have been as tight as it was.  Imagine Slayton instead running that route vs an aging Peterson.  Slayton's speed alone would be enough to create separation and at the very least not allow the CB make a play on that ball.

That doesn't make any sense as the ball was considerably behind him.  Having a faster WR won't improve the QB accuracy.  Consider the critical 4th dorm against the cowboys, Barkley had his man beat by a mile and DJ put the ball behind him and at his feat. 

Quote from: kingm56 on December 27, 2022, 09:04:24 PMThat doesn't make any sense as the ball was considerably behind him.  Having a faster WR won't improve the QB accuracy.  Consider the critical 4th dorm against the cowboys, Barkley had his man beat by a mile and DJ put the ball behind him and at his feat. 

The Hodgins pass was picked off because it was behind the WR.  But the coverage was also pretty tight with Peterson since Hodgins is not as fast as most WRs in the league.

The point I'm making is if it was a faster WR running that route.  The WR's speed should be enough to create separation for a better throwing window.  With better separation, hypothetically even if the ball was thrown behind it should be far enough that the defender cannot make a play on the ball unlike what happened on that pass attemp to Hodgins.

ADDENDUM

Dan explain here the kind of separation and space that Slayton's speed creates against the defense.  If not for his inconsistent hands, Slayton may be a viable #1
https://youtu.be/0ntUIdxHMq4

It's around the 38 minute mark.

No disagreement on Slayton; his hands are the reason he was drafted in the 5th round.  He is what he is.   

Quote from: GMenRF on December 27, 2022, 09:10:42 PMThe Hodgins pass was picked off because it was behind the WR.  But the coverage was also pretty tight with Peterson since Hodgins is not as fast as most WRs in the league.

This might be the weakest defense for an interception that I've ever read.

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 28, 2022, 05:43:14 AMThis might be the weakest defense for an interception that I've ever read.

I think your misinterpreting what I said.  I may be pro Jones but I'm not going turn a blind eye on his deficiencies which he still needs to work on.

That was purely a bad throw.  Well behind the WR.  Which Nick and Dan also points out in their piece.  DJ struggles with ball placement on those horizontal or in/out crossing routes.  On the out route to Saquon if DJ had better ball placement, Saquon could have turned the corner and picked up more yards.

The point I'm making is with faster/quicker WRs, purely on speed alone they can create bigger throwing windows and easier passes for the QB.  Something that DJ doesn't really have the luxury of given with the WRs we have.

The better illustrate the point.  If you watch how Mike McDaniel draws up plays for the Dolphins.  It creates so much stress on the defense when they are challenged to cover a bigger area for the field because of the speed of Hill and Waddle.  They feast on big plays primarily off of the speed of Hill and Waddle.  To compliment it also, because of the threat they pose for defenses it leaves other players unaccounted which creates options for Tua.

3:20 Analyzing Daniel Jones' Season + Future

Quote from: GMenRF on December 28, 2022, 05:57:24 AMI think your misinterpreting what I said.  I may be pro Jones but I'm not going turn a blind eye on his deficiencies which he still needs to work on.

That was purely a bad throw.  Well behind the WR.  Which Nick and Dan also points out in their piece.  DJ struggles with ball placement on those horizontal or in/out crossing routes.  On the out route to Saquon if DJ had better ball placement, Saquon could have turned the corner and picked up more yards.

The point I'm making is with faster/quicker WRs, purely on speed alone they can create bigger throwing windows and easier passes for the QB.  Something that DJ doesn't really have the luxury of given with the WRs we have.

The better illustrate the point.  If you watch how Mike McDaniel draws up plays for the Dolphins.  It creates so much stress on the defense when they are challenged to cover a bigger area for the field because of the speed of Hill and Waddle.  They feast on big plays primarily off of the speed of Hill and Waddle.  To compliment it also, because of the threat they pose for defenses it leaves other players unaccounted which creates options for Tua.

Your point has nothing to do with that interception.

It would be like an argument being made that a receiver that drops a perfectly placed ball in stride wouldn't have dropped the ball if they had a better QB.

So, the reason for DJs INT was because he is "not fast"

Do you want a faster WR to run further away from it, making it look more underthrown? It was a bad throw through and through.

There are plenty of good WRs in the league, 1s and 2s, that aren't blazing fast.

 

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 28, 2022, 05:43:14 AMThis might be the weakest defense for an interception that I've ever read.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 28, 2022, 08:57:51 AM3:20 Analyzing Daniel Jones' Season + Future

Genuinely seems from the portion that i watched that he's trying to find reasons to like him and then does the same thing we do with Jones every freaking season "well, umm... I want him to be more aggressive NEXT year" "you can't be 11th in QBR (counting his rushing) and have the worst 2-3 pass offense".

It's always until next year, at one point are we going to realize it never materializes NEXT year.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 28, 2022, 11:17:58 AMGenuinely seems from the portion that i watched that he's trying to find reasons to like him and then does the same thing we do with Jones every freaking season "well, umm... I want him to be more aggressive NEXT year" "you can't be 11th in QBR (counting his rushing) and have the worst 2-3 pass offense".

It's always until next year, at one point are we going to realize it never materializes NEXT year.

Jones has the second worst contribution of WAR from his supporting cast of any QB in the NFL, yet he is one game away from making the playoffs.  I am not sure how anyone can say that isn't good enough

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 28, 2022, 12:22:58 PMJones has the second worst contribution of WAR from his supporting cast of any QB in the NFL, yet he is one game away from making the playoffs.  I am not sure how anyone can say that isn't good enough

The same creator of the WAR have also assigned solid individual ratings to our WRs . So, something seems off, or at least very inconsistent. 

I see valid points and concerns on both sides of the Jones argument.  I lean toward the positive, as I think he's shown steady improvement and with another year in this offense, with some actual NFL caliber receivers, he'll take another step foward. 

That said, the hesitancy to pull the trigger on midlevel throws - slower processing? - is worrisome and something I'm hoping we see develop in that next step forward.

But here's the point I keep coming back to: who could we get that would be a better QB for the NY Giants in 2023?  Anyone coming out of the draft would be a project.  You want Carr?  Jimmy G?  You wanna give TOP dollar for Jackson?  None of those options appeal to me.  I'll take DJ and I trust our GM to make the right deal. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 28, 2022, 12:22:58 PMJones has the second worst contribution of WAR from his supporting cast of any QB in the NFL, yet he is one game away from making the playoffs.  I am not sure how anyone can say that isn't good enough

To be retained at 30 million, because that's what it'll take to resign him. So you're paying Jones 30 million a year content with the production he has now?

Quote from: kingm56 on December 28, 2022, 12:40:34 PMThe same creator of the WAR have also assigned solid individual ratings to our WRs . So, something seems off, or at least very inconsistent. 

I think the issue is too much focus on current WRs and not the entire receiving group through the season

Players- receiving snaps - PFF receiving grade

Shepard- 108 60.1
James- 340 68.2
Johnson- 158 50.7
Sills- 138 59.8
Slayton- 398 71.7
Robinson- 140 70.9
Golladay- 117 50.3
Hodgins- 248 75.4

Myarick- 177 61.6
Bellinger- 267 58.6
Vannett- 53 52.1
Cager- 73 50.5
Hudson- 140 59.8

Brightwell- 31 71.4
Breida- 41 56.6
Barkley- 248 58.4