Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: madbadger on April 26, 2024, 10:02:23 PMWhy do posters take a short term view of the draft? This draft isn't about next year, it's about the next 5-7 years. Jones is gone at the end of next year. It would be nice to have a competent offense ready to go for the next guy....

Are Nubin and Phillips ineligible for play after this season?  If they can build a top level defense this season, with young and talented players under contract, then that defense should still be top level in 2025.  This team had a lot of holes on both sides of the ball and they filled a couple today.  I don't think we can ask too much more than that.

Quote from: madbadger on April 26, 2024, 09:53:19 PMI don't get it. Coming into the draft the defense was clearly better than the offense and we chose to use three of our first four picks to add to the defense. I guess they're just lanning on winning games 14-10. Not knocking adding Burns, Nubin or Phillips. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Whether they draft an OL or a RB or another WR in the 3rd round they are still going to be stuck with Jones which limits how effective that offense can really be.  There are no limits to how good this defense could be though.  They needed a safety and they got the best one in the draft.  They needed a CB so they got one of those.  You hit the nail on the head:  Their best chance to win games next season is going to be to win them 14-10.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 26, 2024, 08:41:29 PMThe Chiefs won the Super Bowl with their defense

Mahomes helped a bit.  But point taken that the defense carried them all season being one of the very best.  I think the Giants are building a similar type of defense that can carry the team and a less than stellar offense on their backs.

Quote from: madbadger on April 26, 2024, 08:30:34 PMI guess that means that they aren't as concerned at corner as the fans are. He's a really good safety even if he's a rodent.

I think once there was that run on CBs they were left out in the cold but as a very pleasant consolation prize they get the best safety in the draft and they do have a McKinney sized hole at Safety so I do like this pick a lot.  And they would have had to trade up to get one of the CBs which I don't think they wanted to do given they don't have a ton of picks this year as it is.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 26, 2024, 10:18:00 AMI have to confess that when I read comments like this, I feel like people have become emotionally invested in DJ's outcome.  Are you suggesting that protection and receiving don't matter and that a good QB can magically put up big numbers?  That is clearly what the term "excuse making" suggests.  An impartial observer would refer to what you call "excuse making" as a reasoned appreciation that a QB's performance isn't in a vacuum.  The support a QB receives in terms of coaching, protection, and receiving weapons impacts both their play and their development.  It sure seems like your "feelings" are rather perjurative to those who try to have a deeper appreciation of the game.

I'm suggesting, as I wrote in the rest of that post, that when plays were there to be made he didn't make them.  Even if they hadn't won a single game more than they did if the plays that were available to be made were made we'd feel better about Jones.  He simply didn't make them.  Maybe there were only 3 or 4 plays on a given game where he had open receivers and decent protection.  He has to be able to make those plays and he didn't.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 26, 2024, 09:15:49 AMTim,

Did you expect Jones to be somewhere other than at the bottom of the list for deep throws when he had historically bad protection and poor receivers?  That is why I answered a question with a question.  The subtext of your question is that Jones should be held responsible for the historically bad support he received last season.

He should be held responsible for his own play though.  Which at times feels like doesn't happen with all the excuse making.  During any given day, even with an awful OL, there will be plays available to  be made.  Maybe not as many as there could be or even should be but there are some.  Last season he made damn near none of those plays save the Arizona 2nd half.  Which let's also not just pretend the 1st half of that game didn't happen. 

But therein lies precisely the problem with Jones.  He'll give you that Arizona 2nd half every once in a while.  And you'll be fooled into thinking "Hey look this guy has it!" He fooled the Giants front office after one season of simply not horrific football.  But instead of building on that performance he takes 3 steps backwards and has to start all over.  It's the very definition of QB hell.  He's not bad enough to get you into the top 3 so you can actually draft his replacement but he's not good enough to win anything substantial with.

If he could make those plays that present themselves, even in losses, we would be more inclined to say well they lost but that really wasn't his fault.  He made the plays he had to make they just didn't give him enough of them to actually win the game.  The problem a lot of us have is he rarely makes the plays he has, and last year in particular he was just dumping it off at an alarming rate.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on April 26, 2024, 09:11:32 AMHi,

No one said Nabers is going to magically transform Daniel Jones into an elite passer, or become an elite QB.

Here is what I have said to others and I'll say the same thing to you.

Daniel Jones has played a total of five seasons in the NFL.

In the two seasons he had a decent offensive line, ranked 18th and 17th, he had his best years.

In 2022 when the O line performed about average, he posted 3,900 total yards which included his rushing stats, and a QBR of 60.2 which ranked 6th, and a 92.3 RTG which ranked 13th.

I hear that you are saying the Giants weren't a good team in 2022, but the fact that he posted those kinds of numbers on a bad team, and helped them make the playoffs, what would happen if he was actually on a good team?

For instance, the Giants have added an elite #1 WR, and if they upgrade the O line from 30th to say around 15th, do you think Daniel Jones' stats will improve? and will the Giants begin to win again?

If the goal is to win 8 games instead of the usual 5 or 6 then yes this is a great situation. And Jones can do that with all these playmakers around him carrying the load.

If the goal is to win multiple playoff games and/or a super bowl they're going to need a better QB and they'll need him quick before Nabers becomes very expensive.

Quote from: T200 on April 26, 2024, 08:53:48 AMHow do you separate the talent from the player? As talented as Nabers is, he is still one player.

I'm onboard with the pick because I trust Schoen and Daboll still. I'm a little doubtful that this pick will move the offensive needle much.

My concern is that as a rookie, they are chomping at the bit to make an impact. They want to get the ball in their hands to showcase their skills. If Jones is skittish in the pocket and can't/won't deliver the ball to him and the other receivers, frustration and demotivation will set in.

If Jones can't get him the ball, Nabers will be the equivalent of a Ferrari sitting in the garage.

And they already had one of those in Hyatt last year. I love Nabers. And they are stuck with Jones this year no matter what. But it they can't find Jones replacement next year by the time they do Nabers will be approaching free agency and this whole thing would be wasted. No matter how special he is.

Quote from: TONKA56 on April 26, 2024, 08:35:38 AMIs Nabers the kind of guy that will flap his arms, talk smack to his quarterback, and make remarks to the media if things aren't going well?

Don't know. But I think we'll find out.

There's still a few picks in the 1st round yet to go but given how things have shaken out to this point I think the Giants go CB in Round 2 provided a good one is still available.  I think they know that this team is going to need the defense to carry them which is why they got Burns and signed him to a mega deal.  CB opposite Banks is kind of wide open right now and if they can get a solid player there this defense has the potential to be one of the best. 

Quote from: sxdxca38 on April 25, 2024, 11:07:07 PMLenn,

In 2022 Daniel Jones had a 93.2 RTG ranked 13th, a 60.2 QBR ranked 6th, and the Giants went 10-7-1 and won a playoff game.

May I ask did you forget about this?

Respectfully...that was not a great season for a QB in today's NFL.  It was barely good and only by comparison from what they had seen from him prior to that.  And in fact, that team wasn't really talented enough to make the playoffs they just had a LOT of lucky bounces along the way that got them extra wins.  Had those bounces gone the other way, (which they very much did this past season) and Jones still has those same stats but without the playoff appearance/win, there's not a doubt in my mind he would have been replaced last offseason.

Will he be better?  Probably.  But that's not exactly a high bar to reach.  Will he be excellent? Probably not.  He's just not a great QB.  Few are.  He has flashes that make you realize that the talent is there but that quickly is followed by about 3 or 4 crappy games to bring you back to reality. 

They will need to move on from Jones soon but clearly they didn't feel like these other 3 QBs were more valuable than Nabers.  I tend to agree that Nabers is a special talent and tough to pass up at #6...but until they get him a guy that con consistently get him the ball there's not much he can really do to help generate wins.

Quote from: TONKA56 on April 25, 2024, 09:49:09 PMProbably still offensive line. Or lack of running game production.

They'll find something.  They always do.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on April 25, 2024, 09:21:32 PMEyes popping out of his skull excited.

Of course he's excited!  Everybody expected (hoped) they were about to take his replacement.

Quote from: ralphpal1 on April 25, 2024, 09:12:34 PMJust think the weapons we have next year if we have to picka QB ?
Look what the bears did for C Williams
Now we fix our line
We have 2 very good WRs and a Top WR
Put a rookie QB behind there
He is good to.go

Easier said than done.  If they are to be in position to take a QB next year that means suffering through a miserable season this year.  Are we all prepared to sit through another 3 win season in order to get that QB?  Because if you're not then you should have been hoping for JJ or I guess Penix.