QuoteLAS VEGAS -- In safety Xavier McKinney's estimation, something is not right with the New York Giants. The leaders on the team are not being heard, and it contributed to the 30-6 drubbing they took Sunday at the hands of the Las Vegas Raiders at Allegiant Stadium.
The Giants (2-7) allowed the Raiders, with a new coach and offensive coordinator six days on the job, to score on four of their six possessions in the first half. New York's offense again looked sloppy, and Las Vegas led 27-0 at halftime in a game in which the Giants lost starting quarterback Daniel Jones likely for the season.
"Honestly, it sucks. But, I don't know, man. I don't really have many words. I think that from a leadership standpoint, I don't think they've done a great job of letting the leaders lead, and listening to the leaders and the captains," said McKinney, one of the team's 10 captains elected prior to the start of the season. "But obviously it sucks losing."
McKinney seemed to be talking about the coaching staff and/or team's brass. That is under coach Brian Daboll's purview.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38829697/giants-leaders-not-being-heard-xavier-mckinney-says
This is not a good look.
Too bad he didn't say that before the trade deadline. 😂
Time for Dabs to do a TC soul search.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 06, 2023, 08:51:39 AMhttps://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38829697/giants-leaders-not-being-heard-xavier-mckinney-says
having ten captains says it all . The coach has no respect for a captain and what they should represent.
ten ? just candles on top of a make me feel good cake.
Quote from: Woody on November 06, 2023, 09:21:25 AMhaving ten captains says it all . The coach has no respect for a captain and what they should represent.
ten ? just candles on top of a make me feel good cake.
Bingo. Daboll should have an ear for team leaders but not 10 all at once.
McKinney sounds like he wants out. My guess is he is close with Love in Seattle and is getting an inside perspective of how other teams run things.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 06, 2023, 08:51:39 AMhttps://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38829697/giants-leaders-not-being-heard-xavier-mckinney-says
Rich: I was already aware of this view (especially as pertains to McKinney). It will be interesting to see if the Giants/Schoen/Daboll will "go old school" yet again with THIS issue (i.e., trade him) or actually listen to what the player has to say. In 21st century pro ball it is my understanding from people in-the-know that you at least listen and you do not "punish" (in any sense of the word) a player for speaking up in the context and manner as McKinney just did. Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 06, 2023, 09:37:37 AMRich: I was already aware of this view (especially as pertains to McKinney). It will be interesting to see if the Giants/Schoen/Daboll will "go old school" yet again with THIS issue (i.e., trade him) or actually listen to what the player has to say. In 21st century pro ball it is my understanding from people in-the-know that you at least listen and you do not "punish" (in any sense of the word) a player for speaking up in the context and manner as McKinney just did. Bob
The problem I have with this is he went public and that's a Tiki.
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 06, 2023, 09:37:37 AMRich: I was already aware of this view (especially as pertains to McKinney). It will be interesting to see if the Giants/Schoen/Daboll will "go old school" yet again with THIS issue (i.e., trade him) or actually listen to what the player has to say. In 21st century pro ball it is my understanding from people in-the-know that you at least listen and you do not "punish" (in any sense of the word) a player for speaking up in the context and manner as McKinney just did. Bob
It's past the trading deadline, and McKinney is a free agent at the end of the season.
Still, I hope that Daboll and company can put their egos aside and listen to the point McKinney is making. McKinney doesn't strike me as a malcontent so perhaps there is truth (value) in what he has to say.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 06, 2023, 09:39:22 AMThe problem I have with this is he went public and that's a Tiki.
Ed: That's my point to Rich. These days teams are more likely to let that issue slide than in the 20th century. Bob
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 06, 2023, 09:41:36 AMIt's past the trading deadline, and McKinney is a free agent at the end of the season.
Still, I hope that Daboll and company can put their egos aside and listen to the point McKinney is making. McKinney doesn't strike me as a malcontent so perhaps there is truth (value) in what he has to say.
Rich: I'm aware. I was referring to post-season free-agency period. Hope they keep him. He's a smart player, IMO.
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 06, 2023, 09:56:56 AMRich: I'm aware. I was referring to post-season free-agency period. Hope they keep him. He's a smart player, IMO.
Name the last drafted Safety that the Giants resigned to contract #2. I got Terry Kinard and nothing since.
Quote from: TDToomer on November 06, 2023, 10:00:11 AMName the last drafted Safety that the Giants resigned to contract #2. I got Terry Kinard and nothing since.
TD: If he hadn't got injured, the situation would have been different with Kenny Phillips. He was IMO on a path to be in the Giants' top-three all-time safeties. Bob
With 10 "captains", could it be a case of too many cooks spoil the broth? Would it maybe be better with an offensive captain, a defensive captain, and a ST captain?
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 06, 2023, 10:19:02 AMTD: If he hadn't got injured, the situation would have been different with Kenny Phillips. He was IMO on a path to be in the Giants' top-three all-time safeties. Bob
There was no guarantee that Reese would have extended him. Shawn Williams was on a similar path. So there is bad injury luck with some of these safeties not being retained but mostly it seems like Safety is never a priority or a position to allocate salary cap to whether it's Young, Accorsi, Reese or Gettleman running the show. Hell George young let both Myron Guyton and Greg Jackson go in the same offseason once in 94!
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 06, 2023, 09:39:22 AMThe problem I have with this is he went public and that's a Tiki.
Maybe he's tried to keep it in house. It sounds like they feel they're not being listened too...
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Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
I asked co-captain #Giants Andrew Thomas about these comments from Xavier McKinney.
"I don't know exactly where he is coming from or where he is feeling that, but me, personally, I think we do a good job being able to communicate with the staff on anything that we need. Any frustrations or whatever or any questions we have, I feel like they are pretty open."
Thomas is on offensive side, McKinney is on defensive side, but all are in Friday captains' meeting.
Leaders lead not by words but by example. Stop blaming others for your failures. I'm not saying that Daboll is perfect or a great coach but I'm tired of players who don't lead crying about not being able to lead. Give me a break.
I feel like McKinney is neither good enough nor has he been available enough in his first three years to be publicly dishing out this type of criticism. Really rubs me the wrong way.
Quote from: TDToomer on November 06, 2023, 11:24:24 AMThere was no guarantee that Reese would have extended him. Shawn Williams was on a similar path. So there is bad injury luck with some of these safeties not being retained but mostly it seems like Safety is never a priority or a position to allocate salary cap to whether it's Young, Accorsi, Reese or Gettleman running the show. Hell George young let both Myron Guyton and Greg Jackson go in the same offseason once in 94!
TBH, I don't remember Shawn Williams on the same path as Phillips who was perfect in the defense he was playing in.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on November 06, 2023, 01:20:40 PMTBH, I don't remember Shawn Williams on the same path as Phillips who was perfect in the defense he was playing in.
More of the fact that they both were late first round picks expected to be franchise cornerstones. Both started in a Super Bowl.
Looks like I found my answer. Shawn Williams was resigned to a 2nd contract prior to the 2002 season and played 4 more seasons, though was mostly injured and not a starter at the end. In total he played 8 seasons with the GMEN and 1 final season with the Panthers. Decent career.
I know he went public with it but he
May have a valid complaint.
10 captains? Really. That absolutely showing no respect for the captains designation and what it is suppose to represent.
I was watching. NFL network this morning and Gerald Mcoy was subbing for someone and they were discussing the Pickens posts on twitter where he was complaining about targets or lack there of.
Tomlin blew it off as social media talk and said it was no big deal.
Mcoy said that Tomlin needs to realize that social media is the main way young people communicate these days and he should listen to his players complaints because that is the way Pickens was communicate his thoughts to him....they feel it's the same as complaining in person to the coach...not like old days for sure.
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Quote from: uconnjack8 on November 06, 2023, 01:20:40 PMTBH, I don't remember Shawn Williams on the same path as Phillips who was perfect in the defense he was playing in.
uconn: My memory sucks but in this case it agrees with yours. Don't consider seppuku. lol
PS. I decided to write seppuku, not hari-kari, with Painter in mind. He's feeling a bit down about the team. My hope is that he sees this and maybe cracks a grin.
McKinney cleared the air with Wink. Says he wants to be extended. But he's safety and we never resign them.
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/xavier-mckinney-has-cleared-the-air-with-wink-martindale-after-postgame-criticism (https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/xavier-mckinney-has-cleared-the-air-with-wink-martindale-after-postgame-criticism)
Quote from: TDToomer on November 09, 2023, 09:37:03 AMMcKinney cleared the air with Wink. Says he wants to be extended. But he's safety and we never resign them.
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/xavier-mckinney-has-cleared-the-air-with-wink-martindale-after-postgame-criticism (https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/xavier-mckinney-has-cleared-the-air-with-wink-martindale-after-postgame-criticism)
Was that before or after he gave up on a TD?