Justin Herbert- proof that just adding an elite QB will turn around a franchise

[MightyGiants]

Justin Herbert is considered by most to be among the elite QBs in the league.

Yet in his 4 years in the team, they failed to make the playoffs twice, lost a wildcard game, and are on pace for another season failing to make the playoffs.  Since the Giants actually won a playoff game during that same stretch, it seems, in some ways the Chargers have done worse than the Giants even with an elite QB.

Now, the point I am making isn't the one most would think.  I am pointing to the danger of drawing conclusions from just one QB's situation.   This includes citing often-injured Joe Burrow as proof an elite QB can function with a bad O-line or CJ Stroud as proof that just changing the QB can turn a franchise around.

I think as we debate and discuss the team, its fortunes, and what it should do, we are careful not to use exceptions to create the rule.

[AZGiantFan]

I think as we debate and discuss the team, its fortunes, and what it should do, we are careful not to use exceptions to create the rule.

Darn, just as I was about to suggest looking for our next franchisevqb in the 6th round.

[spiderblue43]

I've noticed how Herbert tends to be erractic in crunch time. In fairness, his coach is even worse in those moments. Chargers are an enigma,always.

[DaveBrown74]

Herbert needs to start winning more big games. And he needs to start winning more close games too. The latter one is key.

Now.. I'm only going to go so far knocking a guy who has 20 total TDs (17 passing, 3 rushing) with just 5 INTs and zero lost fumbles, along with being 5th in QBR and having a 99.5 rating. He is clearly very talented. The eye test alone tells you that if you watch just a couple of series with him.

Their big issue is D. When you're literally 31st out of 32 teams in yards per game allowed and you're 24th in PPG allowed, and the team is still in the playoff hunt in late November, it's kind of hard to kill the QB.

But still, with the talent he has and (now) the paycheck he has, I'm not really in the excuses business. He does have to win. He's 25 though, so it's not like the book is remotely written on him.

[nb587]

Herbert needs to start winning more big games. And he needs to start winning more close games too. The latter one is key.

Now.. I'm only going to go so far knocking a guy who has 20 total TDs (17 passing, 3 rushing) with just 5 INTs and zero lost fumbles, along with being 5th in QBR and having a 99.5 rating. He is clearly very talented. The eye test alone tells you that if you watch just a couple of series with him.

Their big issue is D. When you're literally 31st out of 32 teams in yards per game allowed and you're 24th in PPG allowed, and the team is still in the playoff hunt in late November, it's kind of hard to kill the QB.

But still, with the talent he has and (now) the paycheck he has, I'm not really in the excuses business. He does have to win. He's 25 though, so it's not like the book is remotely written
 on him.

A big issue is the defense.  The big is

Herbert needs to start winning more big games. And he needs to start winning more close games too. The latter one is key.

Now.. I'm only going to go so far knocking a guy who has 20 total TDs (17 passing, 3 rushing) with just 5 INTs and zero lost fumbles, along with being 5th in QBR and having a 99.5 rating. He is clearly very talented. The eye test alone tells you that if you watch just a couple of series with him.

Their big issue is D. When you're literally 31st out of 32 teams in yards per game allowed and you're 24th in PPG allowed, and the team is still in the playoff hunt in late November, it's kind of hard to kill the QB.

But still, with the talent he has and (now) the paycheck he has, I'm not really in the excuses business. He does have to win. He's 25 though, so it's not like the book is remotely written on him.

Herbert needs to start winning more big games. And he needs to start winning more close games too. The latter one is key.

Now.. I'm only going to go so far knocking a guy who has 20 total TDs (17 passing, 3 rushing) with just 5 INTs and zero lost fumbles, along with being 5th in QBR and having a 99.5 rating. He is clearly very talented. The eye test alone tells you that if you watch just a couple of series with him.

Their big issue is D. When you're literally 31st out of 32 teams in yards per game allowed and you're 24th in PPG allowed, and the team is still in the playoff hunt in late November, it's kind of hard to kill the QB.

But still, with the talent he has and (now) the paycheck he has, I'm not really in the excuses business. He does have to win. He's 25 though, so it's not like the book is remotely written on him.

A big issue is defense.  The big issue is coaching.  There was a thread yesterday about owners.  Chargers are up there with the worst.  I don't know what the Charger HC has to do to lose his job.  He is up there with the worst HCs I have ever seen. 

[H-Town G-Fan]

There have been complaints for years about Staley as a head coach. That he has been allowed to waste years of talented rosters is criminal.

[Dgoodmantrublu]

They had a top 5 pick and were a winning team within 2 years.

[spiderblue43]

Staley is the clueless Charger. Herbert is saddled
with him. Maybe ownership is too cheap to fire him and bid for a top name.

[Jclayton92]

Yeah Herbert and Burrow are phenomenal and we would be over the moon to find a Qb on their level.

Herbert's issue is a horrible coach and defense like Burrows issue is the oline. Both are phenomenal QBs otherwise.

[DaveBrown74]

Yeah Herbert and Burrow are phenomenal and we would be over the moon to find a Qb on their level.

Herbert's issue is a horrible coach and defense like Burrows issue is the oline. Both are phenomenal QBs otherwise.

Herbert also had a horrible O line when he came into the league. Worst in the league per PFF and he still won OROY that year. He really is a terrific talent. The winning will come.

[Gmo11]

I wish the Giants were as bad as the Chargers who are 4-5 right now while having one of the most potent offenses in the entire NFL.  I imagine a lot of us would give quite a bit to be that "bad".

No you can't take one scenario and extrapolate it everybody.  Like when they said Stroud would be a bust because he came from Ohio State and they never produced QBs there.  It's a silly exercise.  But having said that, getting a real QB is the fastest path to getting the Giants back to respectability. 

And the fastest path to getting that QB is using their first pick next season on it.  They have to get the pick right, goes without saying, but if they do they're set for a decade plus.  And if they don't...they're pretty much right where they are anyway.

[Woody]

Watching Williams on tv.  Not making USC better.How would he make a bad Giants team better?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Doc16LT56]

I wish the Giants were as bad as the Chargers who are 4-5 right now while having one of the most potent offenses in the entire NFL.  I imagine a lot of us would give quite a bit to be that "bad".

I would trade every win the Giants have cobbled together over the last 5 years to have Justin Herbert as my starting QB going into 2024.

[Woody]

What makes anyone here think there is  a right decision on a QB with #1 pick. It is a gamble to pick a QB #1.  No matter who it is. Who was it , Haskins that was supposed to be the guy for Giants? How did he do in NFL.
Yes teams have to have a very good QB to build around... but why would any Giant fan think the Giants are capable of doing that.
They have been picking in top ten most years for a decade and have nothing to show for it.

Shoen  has one or two more years to get it done in my opinion.  And then if does make them competitive he will be exception to Mara Tech record of front office hires.
Just saw Williams make a great pass.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dgoodmantrublu]

Haskins is no where in the class of anyone at the top of this QB group. Please be serious.