Big Blue Huddle

A general observation about the Patriots. Let's remember that Bill is the Head Coach only. The Pats have a Scouting Dept and a GM. Yet many fans believe that Bill calls all of the shots when it comes to the Draft and Free Agency. Sure he has input- but can we stop the implication that he does everything on that team including inflating/deflating the footballs?


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We know the Giants love athletes. So I wouldn't be surprised if they had a higher grade on Njoku than Howard.  On the other hand, Howard appeals to a lot of teams because he had a four year career while Njoku only played two years.

One never knows when it comes to the Draft - so it will be interesting what the Giants will do at #23 if one or both of these players are there for the taking.  If either Bolles or Ramczyk are there as well, then what?  You can get a good TE in the 2nd or 3rd while your chances of landing a starting caliber OLT are very slim after Round One.

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 02, 2017, 02:28:41 PM
Seeing how this appears to be the way the Giants intend to "fix" their offensive line issues:

http://draftanalyst.com/combine-report-31-lamp-headed-round-1

Ramczyk is probably not included because he had offseason hip surgery and his medicals will keep him off many Draft Boards and lists such as this.

Quote from: 4thand17 on March 02, 2017, 04:33:52 PM
Isn't he supposedly one of the "short arm" brigade.

Doesn't make a difference.  Lamp is a guard.  Short arms or wingspan is only important for tackles. 

Antonio Garcia is often mentioned as a possible 2nd Round pick.  But his arm measurement is below the Giant requirement.  Reese stated that they made an exception for Pugh and that turned out to be a mistake because Justin did not have a long wingspan to ward off edge pass rushers effectively.  So I think you can cross off Garcia as OLT possibility.

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 01, 2017, 10:58:06 AM
Yes and no

Obviously, you can't use the Combine as a way to stack players on your draft board.  The Combine is a tool and like many tools, there are other tools that need to be used as well in order to complete the job.

There are players who will see their draft value rise or fall based on the combine.  It could be a failed medical, a poor interview, a slow or fast 40 time, a measurement that isn't nearly as good as their college list, a QB hand size, and offensive lineman's arm length.    Outliers good or bad tend to push a guy's draft stock down (at least for some teams) and good outliers in events relevant to the position will cause teams to reevaluate or some times to push the prospect's draft value upward.

It is very fashionable right now to bash the Combine as a big nothing.  But as Rich and the article point out - it is a tool like many others.  Every team has scouts who assign player grades.  The grade on that player could go up or down depending on the performances at the Combine. 

Quote from: MP21WAYS2PAY on February 26, 2017, 06:03:39 AM
If the worst case scenario is we come out of the 1st round with a elite/very good corner, I will sleep well.  I know there are some great TE options at the top of the draft, and I would be thrilled to get one of them, but the draft is also deep at TE, so if we can get a very good TE in round 2 or 3, I am ok with that.

One added point - the Draft is not deep in OLs. So that increases the likelihood that an OT will be taken in the 1st or 2nd Rounds knowing full well that other needs can be filled with positions if greater depth.

Also - I would state that the odds of a nickel/dime CB being drafted again in Round One are 99-1.


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Great article! The Giants used to have their own psychological test but were encouraged by the league to discontinue it.

They now look at character as a requirement for a top three selection.


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Great article Rich. In looking at the numbers - it looks like the 10% success rate is probably more from the 5th to 7th Rounds.

Irrespective of the numbers - I don't think we as fans should criticize the Giants for their 3rd day picks not making it. There is plenty of valid criticism to be levied to Ross and his Scouts for their first and second day selections!


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Quote from: Bob In PA on February 26, 2017, 06:59:29 PM
Ed: I'm referring to the fact that the draft is a crap-shoot to start with, so long runs of bad results in the later rounds are not a great surprise to me.

MOST draft picks after round three are already more likely than not to fail, so there are bound to be runs of what I term "bad luck" (meaning that the long-shots just never seem to come in).

I wonder how the data you cited compares to the first six years under George Young or Ernie Accorsi - or - how it compares to the same sixyear period for the Patriots (for example), but I'm too lazy to do the work, so I'm just going to go and look it up, hopefully for my own edification.  For the record, I believe I will find that they fared no better.

Bob

PS. A comparison to the Seahawks' past six drafts might be even more interesting.

PPS. I was too lazy to look up anything except the Seahawks, and I discovered an almost unheard-of run of great drafts, BUT all or virtually all of the successful picks were above round 4.  In fact, IMO, they picked more crap in rounds 4-7 during the past six years than the Giants.  Of course, my knowledge of their roster is a lot less "in-depth" than my knowledge of the Giants' roster.

I believe the percentage of Draft picks taken in Rounds 4-7 making NFL rosters is in the neighborhood of 10%.

Drafthistory.com is a great website for those interested.


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Quote from: Bob In PA on February 25, 2017, 10:06:56 AM
sooner: There is a high likelihood that the best player will be a CB; it's possible they could hope to trade down if that happens.

Generally, it will be interesting to see whether they stick to best-player-available strategy throughout this draft, because it is so deep.

If it does turn out to be a cornerback, I think they will take him IF they think he can cover the slot.

Bob

Sorry Bob but I disagree. Even though the Giants claim they use the BPA philosophy, history tells us that it is "best player at a position of need".  After drafting Apple last year, I would say it is very unlikely they would use another 1st Round pick on a nickel/dime CB.  That type of player might be selected in the latter Rounds. They have too many other needs to fill on this team right now than CB.


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Quote from: UKGiantsFan on February 22, 2017, 08:55:12 AM
Can't see any way that LT Ryan Ramczyk is available at #23 (I'm not a Cam Robinson fan). However trading up 5 spots for him would only cost a 3rd rounder so if JPP is re-signed this becomes a more feasible possibility. Dark horse is LT Antonio Garcia. Forget the 1-on-1 practices at the Senior Bowl, it's different 11-on-11 and he did well in those and the game itself. Unlike Flowers he can move his feet and he doesn't duck his head and get bull rushed back!

I really like Moton as an RT option (and he can play RG too) but he is unlikely to be on my wish-list at #23. Trading back? Add to wish-list

DE Derek Barnett or Taco Charlton (whichever is left). I think Willis is too stiff. Prefer others to him even for R2

Going G is a possibility if we sign a LT in free agency and shift Flowers to RT but the quality likely available in R2 make it a better possibility. I can think of 5 guys I'd draft at RG at #55 and at least 2-3 might be there for us. All offer a good fit!

TE is an obvious need and my liking for Njuko was trumpeted the morning after we went out of the playoffs but there is depth and T/DE are bigger priorities if we have holes there

We can discount WR, C, CB, S and 3/4 edge rushing OLB's altogether.

At ILB there are a couple but it's a two down position in our defense and not worth it.

At OLB I really like the Temple kid who plays everywhere but with a healthy Kennard there isn't  a natural post for him to start

At DT McDowell intrigues but I don't see a natural fit next to Snacks. The guys I like as a fit don't look like first rounder's to me pre-Combine

Dark horse is RB. Seriously! If Leonard Fournette was to drop I'd grab him in a heartbeat. Not as sure about Dalvin Cook. Dark horse? McCaffrey but only as a last resort. All have the speed and offer the explosive long distance threats that Perkins doesn't

Hey Ceri!  Have you thought about submitting your resume to JR?  This group of scouts could sure use someone who actually knows how to evaluate offensive linemen. We have seen seven years of mediocrity and garbage.

Anyway - would like your thoughts on Bolles at #23.  It looks like Ramczyk will be a goner by perhaps #15.  I think Garcia and definitely Moton will be there in Round 2.  So perhaps the Giants will pull a Landon Collins and move up in the 2nd to grab either Bolles or Garcia.  However, the latter prospect does not meet the Giant arm length requirement so seeing that they were burned by their Pugh exception, I doubt they would make another one.  The Giants also like versatility in their OLs - so I think that eliminates Moton who will be either a guard or right tackle in this league.

Quote from: XNYrnLA on February 20, 2017, 01:00:56 AM
Todge,
The Patriots proved again that there is not a very specific size or speed requirement for Wide Receivers and possibly other skilled positions... the only requirement is talent and ability... the best barometer for equating that in prospects is achievement stats and this kid has proven he can play at a high level at the position.

So are you saying that in Giant management meetings, they are pointing to the Pats as not having a big WR on their team.  So they don't need one either?  OK I guess we will see.

Quote from: afan56 on February 18, 2017, 06:54:01 PM
I thought we needed a 6"3" or 6.'4" WR, not another one who may be 6'0" or 6'!".

That is very true. With all due respect to this thread and XLA, the Giants already have two smallish Xs on this roster in Lewis and King.  What they don't have and need is a big WR in the 6-3+ range.


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Those numbers are impressive.  This kid has ideal measurables and decent production. With all of that, why is he considered a late 1st Rounder when he should be a Top 10 pick?

I think we will learn more soon as to why.


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