Big Blue Huddle

I still have a lot of confidence in Schoen, but I hope he did learn something from this year.  As the point was made above, he and the organization were a bit too seduced over the 2022 season and pushed things a bit too much.

I am not that worried over signings like Waller or Campbell, as they weren't huge money and getting out of those contracts is pretty easy.  The Jones signing though looks horrible. 

I still am very concerned about our player development though.  I am a big Alabama fan.... you can't tell me that Neal should be a bust two years in.  Not saying he should be a star, but he has a high floor at worst.  Banks had a good year, but was it good enough?  Hyatt didn't have a year like his preseason would have suggested.  Schmitz wasn't what was expected.  I am really starting to wonder if our player development is the bigger problem than the players we are drafting.  I just feel like we are not getting the most out of the players drafted.

Is there something rotten about this franchise in general?  I feel like we keep trying to change things, but nothing ever seems to change.  We are constantly near the top in injuries each year, even after changing strength and conditioning coaches, the turf (which still apparently sucks), etc.  We change GMs and we still seem to have issues getting players.  The Packers have like 8 guys that are competent WRs, and we have trouble having a couple.  And the coaches seem to not be coaching anyone up, even though we have had so many head coaches and assistants over the past ten years or so.

I expected 2023 to be worse than 2022 (I thought 8-9), but this year was much worse than expected.  And I was hopeful that 2024 would be a year to legitimately compete for playoff victories as our players developed and we got out from under salary cap hell, but we seem so far away from anything right now.  And the more we change, the more nothing seems to change.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 05, 2023, 01:23:57 PMRight now the Giants are being outscored 46-122 through 4 games.  They're 32nd in points scored and 30th in points allowed.  The defense has been just as much of an issue (though not as much Monday night) as the offense.  In the 49'ers game they couldn't get off the field on 3rd down.  It's hard for the offense to get into a rhythm if they are barely on the field.

I'm not trying to argue the offensive line isn't an issue that doesn't need to get fixed I am arguing that trying to fix it with more premium investments at the expense of other areas of need is not going to change much when you are as bad as they have been in all areas.

I'm at work and admittedly didn't look this up, but 30th in points given up is slightly overstated, as how many points have been given up by the offense or special teams, either directly (punt block for TD, INT for TD) or indirectly (Jones fumble deep in our territory)?  I am not absolving the defense of anything here, but the points against is heavily influenced by deficiencies in the offense and special teams for sure.

  So after sitting through a deluge Sunday night and watching the worst football game in person that I likely ever have, I have had a chance to reflect a bit on the evening. 

1. There had to be at least 1/3 Cowboys fans there, and they were much more vocal than the Giants fans, even early in the game.

2. The stadium sounded like a morgue from the second quarter on.  I know the score was not in our favor, but there was no energy whatsoever.  The video boards would ask for noise or to wave our towels, and no one was listening.  I am not sure I have ever seen it so quiet before.

3. The stadium was at least half cleared out by halftime and all the Cowboys fans moved down by the field.  Which was a nightmare to sit around.  They were all taking pictures, celebrating together, having a party.

  I am not sure if this is a result of PSL's and/or HDTV where fans don't go much anymore and sell tickets to the highest bidder, but our stadium is honestly a pathetic excuse for a home field advantage.  This is the NY area, not the middle of nowhere.  I think the Jets fans are much more into it than Giants fans, so this must be mostly a Giants thing then.  Was very sad to see honestly, and a long way from games I went to see with my dad and uncles in the 80's.

Maybe the Jets would like to try and get Geno Smith back....

Quote from: Rambo89 on September 12, 2023, 10:02:52 AMThis isn't a week one overreaction for me.  I thought going into the season they'd take a step back and go 7-10/8-9.  I didn't see it as a bad sign either considering the strength of schedule and looking at the number of one score games they won in 2022.

I do think you are correct that there were some who set unrealistic expectations for this team with the 10+ win predictions not recognizing the issues that still existed with this roster.

Could not agree more.  I have predicted 8-9 all offseason based on the same reasons you stated above.

I've consistently said that they would be slightly worse than last year.  8-9 is my official prediction.

Quote from: MightyGiants on August 08, 2023, 09:54:09 AMFor reference, here was the Giants' first unofficial depth chart from last season.  This team has come a long way in just one season


https://www.giants.com/news/giants-depth-chart-2022-nfl-season-kayvon-thibodeaux-daniel-jones-evan-neal

Very much so Rich.  But what I take from the first depth chart of 2023 is that we still have a long way to go with a number of positions, especially with depth.  But getting there....

I know it is incredibly early in camp, but I have been very impressed by his hands on some of the catches I have seen.  Honestly, that is the thing I have enjoyed more than his speed.  I think he has a very high ceiling, and is clearly incredibly young... I look forward to seeing if he can develop into something more than just a fly pattern guy.  Regardless, this looks to be a great draft pick for Schoen... hopefully he develops into someone that should have been taken in round one...

I have a ton of confidence in Schoen and the front office.  This cap issue is fixed after this year, and that was almost impossible after what Gettleman left here.  We seem to be drafting well with a plan.  I still think there is a chance Big Cat is back next year on a greatly reduced salary... and if he doesn't come way down, Schoen will let him walk.  We saw with Saquon that he has a value placed on players and is willing to let them leave if needed.  Which is the right plan, especially if you can draft well.

I don't think the Giants will be in the Top 5 teams with the best odds to win the SB in 2024, but I do think they are Top 10 and have a chance.

Quote from: zephirus on July 26, 2023, 09:32:30 AMExcellent move by Schoen.  I do hope this tempers expectations about free agency in the coming years.  I think Schoen will be more interested in locking up home-grown talent as it presents itself than swinging for the fences on a free agent who's already a star.  It does continue to place a heavy premium on hitting on draft picks to fill in roles that will necessarily be vacated with free-agents we let walk.  Xavier McKinney is probably going to be one of many casualties of keeping talent like Dexter Lawrence and Andrew Thomas.

Agreed with this.  But the heavy premium on hitting on draft picks is there regardless of strategy on free agents.  There is just no legitimate way to field a championship team unless you draft well and bring in low cost talent.

So we keep him for 2023 and 2024 under his rookie deal, and then five years at $23.5MM a year?  That is pretty darn good work by Schoen.  I think that averages to about $20MM a year for 7 years.  If Thomas keeps doing what he showed last year, that is a bargain.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 17, 2023, 06:59:00 PMhttps://twitter.com/KingHenry_2/status/1681062636828389376

Stupid quote.  Should we get rid of guards too since they don't get paid like tackles do?  Or safeties since they don't get paid like CBs?  Just stupid logic.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 18, 2023, 12:22:02 PMGiants and Barkley Were Reportedly Close to a Deal
In the end, the two sides couldn't agree to a new multiyear deal.

PATRICIA TRAINA

https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/news/giants-and-barkley-were-reportedly-close-to-a-deal

If this is true, I am slightly surprised the Giants didn't go up a bit.  I've said previously that I would have been OK up to $12MM and $25MM guaranteed.  So I could have seen them go up slightly.  But more than happy Schoen is showing discipline and understanding positional value.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 18, 2023, 12:56:38 PMHere are the thoughts of a couple of former NFL execs.  I don't agree with them, but I thought I would share


https://twitter.com/RealTannenbaum/status/1681341903327969296

https://twitter.com/JoeBanner13/status/1681266378970464256

https://twitter.com/JoeBanner13/status/1681271472705110017

This is an idiotic take by Banner.  Who cares what the cap was then versus now.  If I buy my house for $500K, and the market tanks, I am not getting $500K, much less more, if I try to sell.  It is based on other houses in the market.  So if Cook, Jacobs, Pollard, Miles Sanders, etc don't get big money, why am I comparing to McCaffrey, Kamara, Henry, and Chubb when they were signed in the "$500k market"