Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Leek21 on October 29, 2023, 04:31:08 PMDaboll went way too conservative.  Let the kid throw.

I disagree.  This game and the Buffalo game came down to the wire because of run calls and giving their outstanding defense a chance to win them games.  They came within a yard in both of those losses.  The offense is really terrible right now, if they called more passes in today's weather they would have been blown out. 

Going forward, this style won't hold up without having another good starting caliber RB rotate with Barkley and additional TEs that can run block and catch.  Taylor and Jones (last season) complemented Barkley as second running backs.  I don't know where they go from here, maybe there are some more Free Agents with fresh legs who can help?  They should probably keep Pugh in the starting lineup and just play six OL every snap.  They should start rotating Williams, Lawrence, and Thibodeaux out more often, so they don't burn out this season either.  It's a shame how it all came undone this season with the Defense being such a bright spot.   

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 29, 2023, 02:16:54 PMExactly.

That was Judge-esque by Daboll. Literally. Hard to watch.

At the time I thought it made sense for Gano to kick it there but I didn't know he was injured.  On a wet field why rely on an injured specialist to finish the game? 

Quote from: Ed Vette on October 26, 2023, 04:57:39 PMHis ego and posse killed his career. Too much success too soon. TC never reigned him in.

I'm not going to stop blaming the Giants offensive line and them ignoring Ramczyk and Whitworth the offseason before OBJ got hurt.  At the time we blamed Manning rushing his throw high while under duress.  If the Giants had acquired either of those tackles ahead of the 2017, I bet Manning would have gotten one more ring or close to it.  OBJ was unstoppable until that injury.       

Jones last season, with Thomas, was better than Jones and Taylor this season.  Taylor has played better than Jones this season.  When Taylor plays the offense resembles more of what they did last season which was persistence with the run, low turnovers, and letting the defense shine. 

I think compared to Jones this season, Taylor throws with less hesitation but doesn't need to throw as often because of success in the running game with Barkley back and his own keepers.  Taylor looks identical to Jones when the Giants line up in a shotgun in 3rd and long situations, which is essentially a guaranteed sack within 2 seconds.  We've seen it all year and I wish they'd do a max protect if they really must throw the ball or just run it for positive yards and set up their punter and defense.  Jones this season had more 3rd and long situations and we continued to watch him get hit over and over in them and we'd see it impact his passing decisions on earlier downs that became a nasty feedback loop.   

I think once Thomas comes back and the continued development of Hyatt that Taylor can get the Giants into a position to win each week like Jones did last year.  We saw Jones get it done in Arizona this season and how great he was in close games last year but by the time of this 2nd neck injury, I was considering a successful offensive series to be one where he didn't take a vicious hit, let alone get a first down.  My preference is that they stick with Taylor going forward until we don't think he can put them in a position to win games.

I didn't think Jones would be able to come back from his 1st neck injury with him being a running QB.  He totally proved my assumption wrong and went ahead and delivered a playoff victory so maybe he'll prove me wrong again when he comes back. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 20, 2023, 12:59:08 PMI appreciate that, based on salaries, teams are really valuing DI players these days.   Yet I saw this Tweet

https://x.com/PFF/status/1715042624250278308?s=20


I thought, the Giants have really struggled defending the run this season and are at the bottom in sacks.

PFF has Dex generating:

0 sacks
5 hits
16 pressures

Then I think about the impact Parsons has on the Dallas D and Dex seems to have a much smaller impact despite having similar PFF grades:  Parsons 91  Dex 90.6

I was fine when the giants traded down and got an extra #1 pick and I was wrong.  Parsons and Lawrence on the same team could have taken them to the Superbowl.

At least Bellinger isn't on the report, his blocking skills make a difference.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on October 17, 2023, 12:45:20 PMThe sole reason we almost won that game was the defense was lights out. It's pretty obvious.

Had nothing to do with TT, who couldn't muster a single TD drive. He had more to do with us losing the game then he did in almost winning it.

Would the defense have played as well if they had to play more snaps?  The offense play calling was very conservative, had no turnovers, and no unblocked pass rushers hitting the QB before he could see them coming (was OL just better or was it Taylor's influence on calls at the line and his own pocket skills?).

Would the Giants have made this game plan for Jones and would Jones execute it more efficiently?

To the former, there is no evidence this season they would have tried this plan with him.

To the latter, I think this is another thread of the QB discussion we've discussed all year.  I think the Jones of last season would have executed it better than Taylor.  The Jones of this season after five games, I don't he would have.  The play that comes to mind was Taylor's throw the blitzing side or when Barkley went out for reception instead of blocking when recognizing the situation.  Jones regressed in handling those situations this year.

Quote from: T200 on October 17, 2023, 10:30:14 AMI don't excuse the change because he's a veteran but I also understand it's been a while since he's had live, meaningful playing time. It's not the norm for him.

I wonder if Taylor over learned the Seattle Superbowl loss lesson.  They were so close to the end zone in a big formation with Barkley right behind him.  I wonder what he saw in the defense that keyed him to audible?  End of half vs end of a game is a totally different situation but he was going for the win right there which came back to haunt them later.

Am I right to say for the first time this season it felt like the Giants had a chance to win for four straight quarters?  I only had that feeling for a quarter against Arizona.

Going into the game with the state of the OL they really blew our expectations out of the water.

So in searching for why that was, we had the most observable difference, a new QB. It seems we've been talking more about the QB position then any other on this board by a long shot.

Can we conclude that Taylor was the reason that was a winnable game despite it being one of the highest probably losing game this season as the announcers pointed out ahead of the game?  Well that's where the discussion is heading next.

I think Taylor gave them a better chance to win over expectations because of how well they ate up the clock in the first half, not turning the ball over and letting the defense shine.  Ceri mention this type of style in another thread.  The team went back to trying to eat up clock to keep the overall game score down and giving the team a chance late in the game.  Jones or the offensive game plan moved away from that style this season, Waller being evident. Sunday's change in QB and OL situation made them move back towards it.  It was fun to watch and I hope they can stick with it going forward this season with either Jones or Taylor.  Right now though I'd stick with Taylor until Jones is completely pain free.

I'd like Bellinger to get more snaps but then that can make Waller more of an inside WR and crowd out Robinson's playing time. 

Reminds me of Engram and Shepard that never really worked because instead Engram was more of WR then TE and with a terrible OL it was like they lined up in 4 WR sets all the time.

To Ceri's point, Barkley is among the best running backs in the league and Jones is probably the second best running QB and yet they invested in Waller?  Waller is a good player but he didn't complement where the team was.  The whole team, especially Neal, would have been in a better position as a run first offense and adding further complementary players like another good run blocking TE and better RBs rotating in with Barkley. 

Maybe if Thomas stayed healthy they could have pulled off a more frequent passing game but it's been clear for a while he's out of the line up and they need to revert to last year's approach and perhaps even the Jason Garratt approach to the Seattle game.  The Giants have some really good starters on defense who I think would keep them in the games if they took a ball control offensive approach for four quarters.  How many times are the coaches going to make us watch defenders sprint unabated right at Jones and Taylor? They are averaging less then 6 yards per pass attempt but after all the sacks and risks of turn overs, why bother? 

With the state of the offensive line, what's the expected yardage of a pass play?  Between the fumble/interception risk, a sack, an incompletion or quick throw, does it really average out that much more then run for 3 yards?  With the latest injury list, it looks like the OL starting on Sunday will be the worst we've seen so far, yikes!

This may sound defeatist but i think their best chance of success is to go with the heaviest line up they have, find the mismatch in weight of the defense and run the ball 90% of time, if not more.  It would hopefully keep the injuries down.  They may want to consider running it all 4 downs so no pressure on 3rd and 6 to pass.  Perhaps that 1 out of 10 passes catches the Bills off guard.  There isn't a point to lining up Hyatt, Slayton, Campell, etc. since the QB will constantly have pressure in his face.   I'm suggesting they go 3 TE sets and using OL (if any are available) as a TE or two.  Over 4 downs, they got to average 2.5 yards a carry to avoid turning the ball over.  Is the Bills Defensive equipped to stop the run, knowing that it's coming but against a heavy set?  Probably but then again compared to the current offensive scheme i bet it would fair better.  I'm just sick of watching the failed passing game right now and I don't want to see Taylor or Jones take the big hits anymore.  They could at least spare us that with this type of game plan.

I didn't understand when Bredeson came out of the game and Jaylon Thomas, whom I've never heard of before yesterday, came in to play center, Jones lined up in a shot gun on the first play.  I thought for sure it would be a fumble, luckily it was only a low snap. 

There are several presnap moments throughout the game when I see the team line up and I just wished they would instead run the ball for nothing then attempt whatever is they've got planned.

Jackson had a really great season at CB last year before the punt return injury.  He nearly took over games.  His drop off this season is another reason the team looks so much worse then last year.

It's hard to focus on defensive shortcomings with the offense being a total failure.  Maybe they'd play better in more competitive games?

I hope when Barkley and Thomas come back they can go back to the run first, time eating offense that kept games from being blow outs.  They could win on Jones legs if teams have someone like Barkley to account for.  Waller isn't complementary to their skills.

Quote from: JT39 on September 22, 2023, 11:37:06 AMAs well as McFadden did making some plays last night - he did miss 7 tackles and is a liability in coverage.

I remember Tae crowder had a monster game vs the bears last year and a lot of fans said he solidified a spot in the starting spot. He was released later that year.

McFadden earned another start but his seat isn't comfy

He did have that touchdown saving pass breakup on McCaffrey.  McFadden showed he has talent, hopefully it develops throughout the season.