Big Blue Huddle

You can access them here.   Greg is one of my favorite listens, and he is one of the few pundits who actually who never worked in the NFL that I have complete faith in.   



https://www.the33rdteam.com/2024-nfl-draft-greg-cosells-latest-scouting-reports/

These are great reads.

I read the ones on players I saw a lot of.  With Blake Corum, Greg did not address his almost complete lack of pass catching.  Maybe he can or cannot but given that is not shifty hut more a short, linear runner, I doubt he possesses great skill in catching the ball.  This is why I want the Giants to stay away from him.

Quote from: Philosophers on April 02, 2024, 10:52:50 AMThese are great reads.

I read the ones on players I saw a lot of.  With Blake Corum, Greg did not address his almost complete lack of pass catching.  Maybe he can or cannot but given that is not shifty hut more a short, linear runner, I doubt he possesses great skill in catching the ball.  This is why I want the Giants to stay away from him.

I am not familiar with Corum.  Jw, is his lack of pass catching where he was sent out on routes but didn't get open?  Or was he used as a blocker the vast majority of the time?

I ask because Cosell will generally only comment on things he sees on the tape.  So if someone wasn't used as a receiver he will not try and make inferences from what he did not see. 

Quote from: uconnjack8 on April 02, 2024, 10:58:34 AMI am not familiar with Corum.  Jw, is his lack of pass catching where he was sent out on routes but didn't get open?  Or was he used as a blocker the vast majority of the time?

I ask because Cosell will generally only comment on things he sees on the tape.  So if someone wasn't used as a receiver he will not try and make inferences from what he did not see. 

Good point.  No you did not see plays designed with him to be a pass catcher.  For those, Michigan used Donovan Edwards who was really good at catching the ball as a RB plus has more speed than Corum.

Quote from: Philosophers on April 02, 2024, 11:03:56 AMGood point.  No you did not see plays designed with him to be a pass catcher.  For those, Michigan used Donovan Edwards who was really good at catching the ball as a RB plus has more speed than Corum.

I think it was Pat Shurmur who said in today's NFL, if a RB can't be a good receiver, he doesn't want him.  I really think that in the NFL this is a common mindset, but much less so outside the NFL. 

Christian McCaffery is the highest paid RB because of his receiving ability, not his running ability (although you still need to run the ball)

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 02, 2024, 11:07:24 AMI think it was Pat Shurmur who said in today's NFL, if a RB can't be a good receiver, he doesn't want him.  I really think that in the NFL this is a common mindset, but much less so outside the NFL. 

Christian McCaffery is the highest paid RB because of his receiving ability, not his running ability (although you still need to run the ball)

I agree completely with that.  One more weapon in a passing league.  Shifty runner who can catch gets you some first downs and occasional downfield play.

For the Penn State guys, I agreed with his takes on both Adisa Isaac and Chop Robinson.  Isaac, IMO, has a ton of upside potential- very high motor, still raw, really good athlete.  I think he'll make an impact as a rotational pass rusher right off the bat.  Cosell calls Chop the best edge in the draft and I agree.  PSU is gonna miss both of those guys next year (although they just moved a guy to DE that I like better than both these guys when he comes out- Abdul Carter...wears the same "honored" number at PSU as Micah Parsons and Lavar Arrington and may be next in line, IMO- keep an eye out on him this coming year). 

Good info...thanks for posting. After going through a dozen of them, I still find Bowers intriguing as a possible pick at 6

"Bowers is one of the best prospects in the draft. He has high-level playmaking ability and the versatility to line up in multiple locations within the formation, including being featured as a motion receiver. Bowers is an offensive weapon more than a traditional tight end, with the open field balance, strength, elusiveness, burst and long speed to take it to the house almost any time he catches the ball with room to run.

His route running/hands/balance/toughness/vision/speed profile is special; few have that combination of high-level traits. The bottom line with Bowers is that he has the high-level athletic traits and elite ball skills to develop into one of the NFL's best receiving weapons. He can line up in multiple locations within the formation and present matchup issues for the defense.

Bowers lined up in multiple locations in the Georgia offense, including snaps at boundary X on the back side of trips; he was featured on jet sweeps to take advantage of his speed and run-after-catch."

From another site: "He can be utilized as a receiver split wide, in the slot, or in a traditional tight end role, offering flexibility in offensive schemes. Yards After Catch (YAC): His ability to gain yards after the catch is notable..."

Just overall, an offensive juggernaut and future All Pro. He's basically a bigger/stronger WR with elite skills to get open and has great character and work ethic

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on April 02, 2024, 01:54:04 PMGood info...thanks for posting. After going through a dozen of them, I still find Bowers intriguing as a possible pick at 6

"Bowers is one of the best prospects in the draft. He has high-level playmaking ability and the versatility to line up in multiple locations within the formation, including being featured as a motion receiver. Bowers is an offensive weapon more than a traditional tight end, with the open field balance, strength, elusiveness, burst and long speed to take it to the house almost any time he catches the ball with room to run.

His route running/hands/balance/toughness/vision/speed profile is special; few have that combination of high-level traits. The bottom line with Bowers is that he has the high-level athletic traits and elite ball skills to develop into one of the NFL's best receiving weapons. He can line up in multiple locations within the formation and present matchup issues for the defense.

Bowers lined up in multiple locations in the Georgia offense, including snaps at boundary X on the back side of trips; he was featured on jet sweeps to take advantage of his speed and run-after-catch."

From another site: "He can be utilized as a receiver split wide, in the slot, or in a traditional tight end role, offering flexibility in offensive schemes. Yards After Catch (YAC): His ability to gain yards after the catch is notable..."

Just overall, an offensive juggernaut and future All Pro. He's basically a bigger/stronger WR with elite skills to get open and has great character and work ethic

The history of drafting highly touted TEs is not a good one (at least for the teams drafting them). 

It soured me that Bowers refused to work out at the Combine and then didn't at his Pro Day, claiming a hamstring injury.

Finally, I like TEs who can also block and this is what Greg said about his blocking ability- "There were questions re: ability to run block as attached TE but effort was there, and that is the starting point."

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 02, 2024, 01:59:41 PMThe history of drafting highly touted TEs is not a good one (at least for the teams drafting them). 

It soured me that Bowers refused to work out at the Combine and then didn't at his Pro Day, claiming a hamstring injury.

Finally, I like TEs who can also block and this is what Greg said about his blocking ability- "There were questions re: ability to run block as attached TE but effort was there, and that is the starting point."

I see your point. I think it's best to not look at Bowers as a TE, but rather a Swiss Army Knife multi-receiver and offensive nightmare for other teams. I think of him much like I think of Wan'Dale Robinson who spreads the field horizontally at the slot; whereas, Bowers spreads the field both horizontally and vertically at the midfield and beyond, including the x receiver role. And of course, he has some of the most sure hands of any receiver in this draft and has an incredible route tree. Every time he pulls double-coverage, that's going to leave another receiver wide open...because there is absolutely no way the defense cannot account for him every second he's on the field. He is going to give DCs a headache every time he's on the field

He is not a traditional TE in any sense that TEs have previously been thought of, and attaching that moniker to him does him an injustice, IMO. We already have Bellinger as a traditional TE, and two TE's who excel primarily at blocking in Manhertz and Stoll (extra offensive linemen if you will). If Bowers is on the field, most likely he will be going out for a pass, either as a decoy to pull the defense off other receivers, or to make a big play. Though not a traditional blocker, he can still block when a run play is called. He will torment defenses and I hope not against us in our division

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on April 02, 2024, 02:48:10 PMI see your point. I think it's best to not look at Bowers as a TE, but rather a Swiss Army Knife multi-receiver and offensive nightmare for other teams. I think of him much like I think of Wan'Dale Robinson who spreads the field horizontally at the slot; whereas, Bowers spreads the field both horizontally and vertically at the midfield and beyond, including the x receiver role. And of course, he has some of the most sure hands of any receiver in this draft and has an incredible route tree. Every time he pulls double-coverage, that's going to leave another receiver wide open...because there is absolutely no way the defense cannot account for him every second he's on the field. He is going to give DCs a headache every time he's on the field

He is not a traditional TE in any sense that TEs have previously been thought of, and attaching that moniker to him does him an injustice, IMO. We already have Bellinger as a traditional TE, and two TE's who excel primarily at blocking in Manhertz and Stoll (extra offensive linemen if you will). If Bowers is on the field, most likely he will be going out for a pass, either as a decoy to pull the defense off other receivers, or to make a big play. Though not a traditional blocker, he can still block when a run play is called. He will torment defenses and I hope not against us in our division

One other issue: TEs are not paid that well.  So drafting one 6th overall would mean the Giants would see little to no cap relief while he was on his rookie contract.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on April 02, 2024, 01:54:04 PMGood info...thanks for posting. After going through a dozen of them, I still find Bowers intriguing as a possible pick at 6

"Bowers is one of the best prospects in the draft. He has high-level playmaking ability and the versatility to line up in multiple locations within the formation, including being featured as a motion receiver. Bowers is an offensive weapon more than a traditional tight end, with the open field balance, strength, elusiveness, burst and long speed to take it to the house almost any time he catches the ball with room to run.

His route running/hands/balance/toughness/vision/speed profile is special; few have that combination of high-level traits. The bottom line with Bowers is that he has the high-level athletic traits and elite ball skills to develop into one of the NFL's best receiving weapons. He can line up in multiple locations within the formation and present matchup issues for the defense.

Bowers lined up in multiple locations in the Georgia offense, including snaps at boundary X on the back side of trips; he was featured on jet sweeps to take advantage of his speed and run-after-catch."

From another site: "He can be utilized as a receiver split wide, in the slot, or in a traditional tight end role, offering flexibility in offensive schemes. Yards After Catch (YAC): His ability to gain yards after the catch is notable..."

Just overall, an offensive juggernaut and future All Pro. He's basically a bigger/stronger WR with elite skills to get open and has great character and work ethic

Evan Engram vibes!

Quote from: Hadron on April 02, 2024, 04:53:18 PMEvan Engram vibes!

There is no comparison. Engram never completely dominated every team he faced the way Bowers did, not to mention EE could not catch like Bowers (or even close) or run routes like Bowers. Two completely different players. EE was never mentioned in the top 5 or 6 players in the draft, because he wasn't a "game changer"...Bowers is

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on April 02, 2024, 05:35:43 PMThere is no comparison. Engram never completely dominated every team he faced the way Bowers did, not to mention EE could not catch like Bowers (or even close) or run routes like Bowers. Two completely different players. EE was never mentioned in the top 5 or 6 players in the draft, because he wasn't a "game changer"...Bowers is

No, he didn't. However, if you go back and read some of his scouting reports, there's certain "buzzwords" that pop up in both scouting reports.

Strengths
Good explosion over the first 5 yards of his route. Plus athletic ability with easy-opening hips. Nimble feet with quick, controlled strides into and out of his breaks. Accelerates out of his breaks to uncover from defenders for quarterback. Will have to be guarded by defensive backs. Opens quickly to find the ball. Successful working all three levels at Ole Miss. Has true vertical speed to attack the seams. Competitive, athletic runner after the catch. Springy leaper. Jumped out of the gym to snare a touchdown over the head of a Georgia defender. Able to pluck balls low, high, and behind him.

Makes up for his lack of size with athletic ability and plus speed for the position. Engram has experience as a safety blanket for Ole Miss QB Chad Kelly and can work all three levels of the field. He will appeal strictly to teams looking for a move tight end who can be deployed as a chess piece in a matchup-based passing attack.


Keep in mind, I said vibes, not a carbon copy of Bowers.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on April 02, 2024, 05:35:43 PMThere is no comparison. Engram never completely dominated every team he faced the way Bowers did, not to mention EE could not catch like Bowers (or even close) or run routes like Bowers. Two completely different players. EE was never mentioned in the top 5 or 6 players in the draft, because he wasn't a "game changer"...Bowers is

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