Big Blue Huddle

Who do you think should be in?

Quote from: uconnjack8 on December 02, 2023, 11:46:50 PMWho do you think should be in?

What about Ohio St?

Quote from: Philosophers on December 02, 2023, 11:55:32 PMWhat about Ohio St?

Didn't think they could be legitimately considered.  Liberty was tongue and cheek.  I think I can add them

Every other team played in a conference championship.   Sorry they have a tough division.  I know some SEC West teams can empathize.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on December 02, 2023, 11:56:57 PMDidn't think they could be legitimately considered.  Liberty was tongue and cheek.  I think I can add them

Every other team played in a conference championship.   Sorry they have a tough division.  I know some SEC West teams can empathize.

ND never plays in a conf championship game and they have been in a bunch of times in the last decade.


I put in another thread that I think the teams that WILL get in are:

Mich
Wash
FSU
Bama


I think the top four teams in the country are:

1. Mich
2. OSU
3. UGA
4. Bama

If I could have a CFP where I was deciding it based on total subjectivity and not about perfect fairness, it would be the second list. Obviously though, there is no way the committee will (or should) leave power five teams who had undefeated seasons and won their conf championship games out. That would be totally unfair. I'm not advocating for unfairness. I'm just pointing out we're going to get a CFP with only two of the four best teams in the country. And if the theories that they completely leave the SEC out are true, it will be only one of the top four teams.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 03, 2023, 07:21:43 AMND never plays in a conf championship game and they have been in a bunch of times in the last decade.


I put in another thread that I think the teams that WILL get in are:

Mich
Wash
FSU
Bama


I think the top four teams in the country are:

1. Mich
2. OSU
3. UGA
4. Bama

If I could have a CFP where I was deciding it based on total subjectivity and not about perfect fairness, it would be the second list. Obviously though, there is no way the committee will (or should) leave power five teams who had undefeated seasons and won their conf championship games out. That would be totally unfair. I'm not advocating for unfairness. I'm just pointing out we're going to get a CFP with only two of the four best teams in the country. And if the theories that they completely leave the SEC out are true, it will be only one of the top four teams.

Comment about OSU was about this year only.  All of the teams listed were in their conference championship game.  I believe Bama or LSU have made it in to the playoff without having been in a conference championship game as has OSU one year.  Difference is that this year there is 4 teams that won a conference championship and are either undefeated or beat the SEC champion head to head.  In those past years the Big 12 and/or PAC 12 had different situations with their conference champ. 

In no way was I trying to say that in the past teams couldn't get in without a championship game appearance.

For those reasons, when I created the post that OSU would be given any real consideration given the way this year played out.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on December 03, 2023, 07:45:40 AMComment about OSU was about this year only.  All of the teams listed were in their conference championship game.  I believe Bama or LSU have made it in to the playoff without having been in a conference championship game as has OSU one year.  Difference is that this year there is 4 teams that won a conference championship and are either undefeated or beat the SEC champion head to head.  In those past years the Big 12 and/or PAC 12 had different situations with their conference champ. 

In no way was I trying to say that in the past teams couldn't get in without a championship game appearance.

For those reasons, when I created the post that OSU would be given any real consideration given the way this year played out.

Yup I totally hear you. I guess when I look at pure resume, OSU has the two signature wins in ND and against Penn St, and they only lost by six in Ann Arbor while outgaining the Wolverines in that game. To me they're clearly one of the four best teams in the country.

Will/should they get in? No, but I do think they're a top four team that is more than capable of beating anyone. I wouldn't even completely rule out that they might be the best team.

I really won't understand if Bama gets in and Texas doesn't.  If beating a team head to head on the road by double digits doesn't trump the other stuff, then why play tough out of conference games?



FSU should have their #2 QB back and will be a better version than last night.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on December 02, 2023, 11:46:50 PMWho do you think should be in?

uconn: Got to have consistency. The teams "out" should be Ohio State, Georgia and Alabama.

Each of them has already lost to another team on the list of possibilities.

The networks and college football elitists may be unhappy, but so what?

The point is to allow all of the games to have meaning.  Using my rule, they do.

The only possible "bugaboo" with this approach is that it gives as much "weight" to the Alabama/Texas game (played long ago) as it gives to the Alabama/Georgia and Michigan/Ohio State games which were played quite recently. I think that's a small price to pay for consistency, which IMO is the hallmark of fairness in matters like this.  Again, I say, "So what?"

Bob

PS. If anyone can come up with another objective rule that works, please tell me what it is.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 03, 2023, 07:21:43 AMI think the top four teams in the country are:

1. Mich
2. OSU
3. UGA
4. Bama

DB: Agree 100 percent. But two questions presented by OUR SUBJECTIVE CHOICES have already been answered.

It may be a tough break for Ohio State and Georgia, but it is really?

Just think of Michigan/Ohio State and Alabama/Georgia as preliminary tie-breakers in a tournament of six.

Can't have Bama without Texas. Can't have Washington without Florida State.

No other objective criteria work this year.

Bob

PS. Like you, I believe my preferred result (the only one that actually makes sense) will NOT happen.

Mich
Wash
Tx
Bama

Quote from: uconnjack8 on December 03, 2023, 08:21:01 AMI really won't understand if Bama gets in and Texas doesn't.  If beating a team head to head on the road by double digits doesn't trump the other stuff, then why play tough out of conference games?



FSU should have their #2 QB back and will be a better version than last night.

I think Texas gets in with no debate.  Bama could be left out but doubtful.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on December 03, 2023, 08:21:01 AMI really won't understand if Bama gets in and Texas doesn't.  If beating a team head to head on the road by double digits doesn't trump the other stuff, then why play tough out of conference games?



FSU should have their #2 QB back and will be a better version than last night.

I get it, and I agree it's controversial.

I guess I would make two points here:

(1) The game was week two. I think recency should matter. If it doesn't, then that's fine, but I disagree that it shouldn't. And historically I think it has. I feel games played after week 7 or so should matter more than games played before week 4 or 5. If you really want to strive to have the best four teams in the playoffs (while preserving fairness) then I think recency should matter. These teams evolve over the course of the season and are often different teams in early December than they were in late summer.

(2) The rest of Bama's resume is simply a lot better than Texas'. Apart from beating the number one team in the country just yesterday, they had multiple assertive, decisive wins against very respectable, nationally ranked SEC foes like Ole Miss, LSU, and Tennessee. Texas on the other hand struggled mightily with teams like Houston, K State, and TCU. I personally think it shouldn't just be about who you played and whether you won or lost, but I think the nature of the win or loss itself should matter, and it usually does. Bama has a big advatnage over Texas in this regard.

If your life depended on it, and these two teams were to play head to head next weekend in a neutral field like Pasadena, whom would you pick as the straight up winner?

Again I get that it's controversial, but I really doubt the committee shuts the SEC completely out of this. Whether it's fair or not is up for discussion.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 03, 2023, 07:21:43 AMND never plays in a conf championship game and they have been in a bunch of times in the last decade.


I put in another thread that I think the teams that WILL get in are:

Mich
Wash
FSU
Bama


I think the top four teams in the country are:

1. Mich
2. OSU
3. UGA
4. Bama

If I could have a CFP where I was deciding it based on total subjectivity and not about perfect fairness, it would be the second list. Obviously though, there is no way the committee will (or should) leave power five teams who had undefeated seasons and won their conf championship games out. That would be totally unfair. I'm not advocating for unfairness. I'm just pointing out we're going to get a CFP with only two of the four best teams in the country. And if the theories that they completely leave the SEC out are true, it will be only one of the top four teams.

I am with you.  I always go by the eye test so to me I see Michigan, OSU, Bama and UGA as the four best.  Rest of the teams would not want to play those four.

Quote from: Philosophers on December 03, 2023, 10:13:53 AMI think Texas gets in with no debate.  Bama could be left out but doubtful.

I struggle to see both Bama and Texas getting in. I just don't see how they'll leave FSU out. How do you leave out a power 5 team that won all its games and won their conf champ game?

Trust me in no way do I think FSU is a top 4 team, but I simply can't see any way they get left out. They won every single game. They're not Cincy. They play in a legit conference.

If they get left out, then this thing is 100% subjective, and that should open up all kinds of other possibilities.

FSU is an interesting case for the committee.  With their QB1 I see them as a top 4 team, or at least in that conversation.   The version of that team that played last night might not be in the top 10.  They will have QB2 back instead of the Fr. QB1. 

They are still 13-0

Texas is in over Bama. Both conference champs. Both 12-1 but Texas beat Bama in Alabama. Texas should be in. If not, why play the game 🤷🏼�♂️

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 03, 2023, 10:16:56 AMI struggle to see both Bama and Texas getting in. I just don't see how they'll leave FSU out. How do you leave out a power 5 team that won all its games and won their conf champ game?

Trust me in no way do I think FSU is a top 4 team, but I simply can't see any way they get left out. They won every single game. They're not Cincy. They play in a legit conference.

If they get left out, then this thing is 100% subjective, and that should open up all kinds of other possibilities.

Two weeks ago the Committee said they were leaving FSU in the top 4 and said they were not considering their missing starting QB as that would play out in later weeks.  Well it's later and they look worse but they won.  What does Committee do now?

I get that Texas beat Bama in week 2 and more weight is put on recent games.  If Bama and Texas hadn't played this year and Bama lost in week 2 and Texas lost same week and all else went the same way, I would say Bama should be in.  However they did play at Tuscaloosa and Texas won 10.

Quote from: sooners56 on December 03, 2023, 12:04:01 PMTexas is in over Bama. Both conference champs. Both 12-1 but Texas beat Bama in Alabama. Texas should be in. If not, why play the game 🤷🏼�♂️

Agreed.  It should be obvious that a head-to-head win gets the winning team in ahead of the other.  Every other opinion around Texas and Bama is subjective (such as recency, when they played, who would win tomorrow, yadda yadda)....while the scoreboard when they actually played one another is as plain and objective as can be.  With that kind of logic, a team could lose their first three games and then completely and dominantly win out and all of a sudden they deserve to be in the playoff?  Nope.

Well looks like they're both in. Good job by the committee. I'm sorry for FSU, but they're not top four team in the country.

Fsu is not a top 4 team, they play in a horrible conference. They've had opportunities to leave and chose not to.


Hearing Ohio St vs Ole miss in the cotton bowl possibly.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 03, 2023, 01:04:25 PMFsu is not a top 4 team, they play in a horrible conference. They've had opportunities to leave and chose not to.


Hearing Ohio St vs Ole miss in the cotton bowl possibly.

I have seen Penn St predicted there.  Either way, whoever doesn't play in the Cotton Bowl will play in another New Years 6 I think.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on December 03, 2023, 02:09:05 PMI have seen Penn St predicted there.  Either way, whoever doesn't play in the Cotton Bowl will play in another New Years 6 I think.

Yeah Ole miss vs PSu in the peach. Should be a good match-up great O vs great D.

Just to revisit- what happened with putting Bama into the playoffs was an absolute disgrace.  Here's a good read with a lot of good reasons why:  https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/39033710/cfp-anger-index-unpacking-outrage-florida-state-snub-2023

Also, I'll put this out there- to the argument that Bama is a better team than FSU or has a better chance of winning.  1) I personally think that when you wade FULLY into speculation like that instead of facts (as in, they have a loss and just barely beat 6-6 Auburn) then it's a sign of a weak argument, and 2)  even if I agreed they were the better team in January than FSU- it DOES NOT or SHOULD NOT matter.  There are plenty of subjective ways over the years to make this exact same case for a lot of teams that didn't make the playoffs....and it shouldn't matter.  Results on the field.  Win football games.  Win your conference.

What clearly drove this debacle is a yearning $$$$ need to make sure the SEC was represented in the playoff.  That's it.  End of story.  It shouldn't surprise any of us, but it's still repugnant. 

Came down to FSU vs. Alabama. The good news: we'll likely how Saban tries to shut down Michigan.

It's not the 1st time the committee ignored an undefeated team so they could include one of the "in-crowd."

As a life-long Penn St fan I'm used to my team being pooh-poohed for "weak schedule" or some other b.s. reason.

You younger guys might not understand that statement, but in "olden days" lol PSU (like Notre Dame) was not in a conference and went undefeated multiple times only to be denied a major bowl game for IMO b.s. reasons.

I feel bad for you, Florida State !!!

Bob

Florida State pushed out of the playoff due to hip drop tackle

"What clearly drove this debacle is a yearning $$$$ need to make sure the SEC was represented in the playoff.  That's it.  End of story.  It shouldn't surprise any of us, but it's still repugnant."

This.
TV and ad revenue. I don't know if it's possible, but I'd like to see FSU somehow embarrass the NCAA, and the committee while saving face. 

This is the last year where there should be any issues with who got in and and who didn't.  I am not going to have any sympathy for a 3 loss team that misses the 12th seed.

Quote from: Uni on December 04, 2023, 10:33:18 AMFlorida State pushed out of the playoff due to hip drop tackle

Is that how the QB was injured?

I think they did the right thing. It was the difficult thing but the correct one for me. FSU absolutely is the most deserving but as I understand the criteria it's the best 4 teams not the most deserving. Hell Georgia also has a pretty real gripe in this too. Alabama almost losing to Auburn hurts but they did just take down the #1 team all year and both of them would be favored by double digits over FSU. It sucks for FSU that an injury derails their season like that but we're not talking about an injured punter here. It's the best player on their team at the most important position. If Penix had blown out his knee in the win over Oregon they wouldn't be in this thing either.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on December 04, 2023, 11:50:48 AMIs that how the QB was injured?

Correct

Michigan, Washington, Texas- which beat Bama which beat Georgia- and the undefeated Florida State. The only reason Bama was chosen was as a not unexpected genuflection to the SEC. Can't leave one of them out, can they? Had it been next year when UT will be in the SEC, it would not have happened as such.

Cheers!

I find it ridiculous if the criteria is the four best teams, subjectively determined.  This is football not ice skating.  I would start with any undefeated team in a major conference. An objective criteria.  Only after that should subjective judgements and decisions made.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 05, 2023, 02:24:03 AMI find it ridiculous if the criteria is the four best teams, subjectively determined.  This is football not ice skating.  I would start with any undefeated team in a major conference. An objective criteria.  Only after that should subjective judgements and decisions made.

You guys act as if there are standards in college football. It's like that line in Casablanca, Gambling in Casablanca, I'm shocked. Shocked."

If FSU beats UGA in the Orange Bowl, a strong case can be made for them being AP national champions, particularly if the ultimate CFP winner has one loss (ie either UT or Bama).

Quote from: katkavage on December 05, 2023, 07:52:56 AMYou guys act as if there are standards in college football. It's like that line in Casablanca, Gambling in Casablanca, I'm shocked. Shocked."

Where did I say there are standards??  I'm just giving my opinion of how it should work.

But there actually IS a standard in college football - the gold standard.