Why Has OL Coach Not Been Fired Yet?

[Philosophers]

2023 Giants, 83 Sacks is the 2nd highest 16 game total in history of the NFL

Thanks for researching that.

[Ed Vette]

Almost all of them have better run-blocking than pass-blocking grades

So the players they let go are playing significantly better than what they have now. I can read it two ways. What do you think?

[MightyGiants]

So the players they let go are playing significantly better than what they have now. I can read it two ways. What do you think?

At first blush, it would seem that the Giants organization, likely due to coach and/or scheme, is not getting the most out of the talent they acquire. 

Of course, I am the type that likes to drill down.  So I have

Hernandez



Will had a solid freshman year with NYG then regressed but returned to his freshman form when he played for the Cards


Zeitler



Played well his first year with NYG then regressed only to return to form when he went to the Ravens

Gates



I do not see a strong enough pattern to draw any conclusions

Feliciano



Under Bobby Johnson most of his career, he seemed to play to a consistent level.  He really took off (albeit with limited snaps) when he played for a new coaching staff with the elite 49ers.


It's hard not to conclude that the Giants have had a string of poor offensive line coaches.  So bad that players regress if they play with the team long enough but will return to form with other teams.

Now, it's still possible that we are dealing with a round peg in a square hole type scenario where NYG simply puts the offensive linemen in schemes they are not comfortable with (a zone blocker in a M2M or vice versa, as an example) but I have to think the one-year decline patter makes that possibility less likely.

[Ed Vette]

At first blush, it would seem that the Giants organization, likely due to coach and/or scheme, is not getting the most out of the talent they acquire. 

Of course, I am the type that likes to drill down.  So I have

Hernandez



Will had a solid freshman year with NYG then regressed but returned to his freshman form when he played for the Cards


Zeitler



Played well his first year with NYG then regressed only to return to form when he went to the Ravens

Gates



I do not see a strong enough pattern to draw any conclusions

Feliciano



Under Bobby Johnson most of his career, he seemed to play to a consistent level.  He really took off (albeit with limited snaps) when he played for a new coaching staff with the elite 49ers.


It's hard not to conclude that the Giants have had a string of poor offensive line coaches.  So bad that players regress if they play with the team long enough but will return to form with other teams.

Now, it's still possible that we are dealing with a round peg in a square hole type scenario where NYG simply puts the offensive linemen in schemes they are not comfortable with (a zone blocker in a M2M or vice versa, as an example) but I have to think the one-year decline patter makes that possibility less likely.

I agree. Most players are either power for agility at Center/Guard. Imagine the kind of year Barkley would have had behind Hernandez or Gates, Feliciano and Zeitler. Surely would have opened up the intermediate passing game, unless they only improved because they moved on. 

[AZGiantFan]

At first blush, it would seem that the Giants organization, likely due to coach and/or scheme, is not getting the most out of the talent they acquire. 

Of course, I am the type that likes to drill down.  So I have

It's hard not to conclude that the Giants have had a string of poor offensive line coaches.  So bad that players regress if they play with the team long enough but will return to form with other teams.

Now, it's still possible that we are dealing with a round peg in a square hole type scenario where NYG simply puts the offensive linemen in schemes they are not comfortable with (a zone blocker in a M2M or vice versa, as an example) but I have to think the one-year decline patter makes that possibility less likely.

The good news in all of this is that just as these players bounced back once they got out of the malevolent atmosphere of the Giants' OL room, IF they can manage to get a good OL coach we can expect improvement from the guys they have.  But it's a big if.

[Philosophers]

About 10-15 years ago, with the rise of the pistol offense in college, NFL teams complained that college OL players were not as good coming out of college than previously particularly when it came to pass blocking.  I have to assume that has continued to some extent.  If true, maybe we need to improve it more with free agent signings than draft picks.

[DaveBrown74]

Interesting:

https://twitter.com/postcrabcore/status/1743354261931511840

[Philosophers]

Interesting:

https://twitter.com/postcrabcore/status/1743354261931511840

Good OL sees other options for players that plays to their strengths and may make them more effective

[T200]

Good OL sees other options for players that plays to their strengths and may make them more effective

Too bad we don't have anyone on our coaching staff that shares that philosophy. 

[Painter]

How many Head Coaches and Coordinators and Position Coaches have the Giants had since Coughlin, Gilbride, Spagnuolo, Flaherty, Waufle, Quinn et al ran teams which were sufficiently successful to have avoided being dumped all over as have their successors all of whose names should be quite familiar this past decade.

All I know of Bobby Johnson is that his work in 3 years as Bills Oline coach, beginning with a largely inexperienced group of players, was sufficiently successful in contributing to the success of its Offense and overall, that Schoen/Daboll made sure that he came with them to the Giants. Of course, now following last season's now-you-see-it, now-you-don't tease, he's no more than one of many who should be in shite.
 
As for the talent and lack thereof of the Giants Olines (plural), all I have seen is years of roster turnover and inconsistency such that it rarely if ever exceeded a College Division 2 talent level. Certainly, nothing like Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara, Snee, and McKenzie if we need a reference.

Frankly, I think that had they gotten anything like the anticipated, although possibly overrated, performance from Evan Neal at ORT followed this season by the addition of JMS at OC and now perhaps their 1st and one of their 2nd Rounders to do for the Oline (and QB) what has been needed for much too long, it might not be so far-fetched that we won't need to keep on "tale of tape" crunching in search of an answer.

Cheers!