Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: kingm56 on Today at 10:42:32 AMYou answered a question with a question. Again, can explain why Kafka was a hot OC and led the leagues best passing game in KC, but a reason for DJs failures here?  I'd also like to hear more about how a hot OC in Buff and NFL CoY is part of DJs problem.

I think you are overstating things when you claim that Kafka "led the league's best passing game."   Kafka wasn't the OC; he was the quarterback's coach & passing game coordinator.  To make matters worse, Andy Reid, rather than the OC, calls the plays for the Chiefs.

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on Today at 10:39:50 AMWaller was supposed to be that 'de-facto' WR1 and that experiment failed miserably (along with the OL).

Yeah, everything was looking good right up until Waller suffered that hamstring injury in the week leading up to opening day.  It was all downhill from there. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 10:35:56 AMIf you believe Kafka didn't have issues, how do you explain Daboll seeking to take away (and he did take away multiple times last season) play-calling duties?

You answered a question with a question. Again, can explain why Kafka was a hot OC and led the leagues best passing game in KC, but a reason for DJs failures here?  I'd also like to hear more about how a hot OC in Buff and NFL CoY is also part of DJs problem.

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 10:28:13 AMI would argue the O-line coach is as important as your OC and DC.  First off, they are the only position to coach 5 players on the field (6 in heavy tight-end packages), with the possible exception of a DB coach in a system that plays mostly nickel.  Second, I don't think there is a position in the league where prospects come in less prepared for NFL games than O-linemen.  Finally, with the CBA limits, coaching O-linemen has never been more challenging owing to the lack of time in pads.

I would argue that you are 100% correct. I think that's why you see guys like Stoutland and Scarnecchia being held on to like gold by their teams even when their are major coaching changes around them.

Ric Serritella has a weekly newsletter in which he interviews David Gettleman.  Here is an excerpt of that newsletter



At and near the bottom, Gettleman complains about draft-media grades being listened to by GMs (He seemed very upset with the Athletic's Dane Brugler, who is well respected by NFL people).  Seeing how the only recent owner Gettleman worked with was Mara (and Tisch), perhaps John Mara wasn't impressed by the grades the Giants received for drafting Daniel Jones 6th overall.  When I think about it, I saw a lot of speculation of John Mara loving Daniel Jones (the theory being he was similar to Eli Manning) but I can't recall a smoking gun or actual factual evidence to support that speculation.

https://x.com/clt_ny/status/1786740194638446598


If you would like to subscribe to the newsletter, here is the link.


https://x.com/RicSerritella/status/1786756699333837187

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 03, 2024, 09:59:01 AMRic,

I like your post. I will say, to me this question is akin to which tire on a car is the most important.  For an offense to be successful you need a good QB and at least one really good receiving threat (can be a WR or special TE)

Waller was supposed to be that 'de-facto' WR1 and that experiment failed miserably (along with the OL).

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on May 03, 2024, 09:50:15 AMIs a great WR behind an average QB better, or is a great QB with average receivers better? That is the question

I was reading through Great Blue North this morning and saw this blip and figured I'd share https://gbnreport.com/giants-report-thoughts-on-the-draft/

Maybe there's more hope than some believe 

"...in fact, there have been rumblings that head coach Brian Daboll had been lobbying for the Giants to take a WR with their first round pick, possibly even if one of the top QB was still on the board at that point. Just maybe Daboll recalls that Josh Allen, whom he has been credited with 'developing' in Buffalo really didn't emerge as a top player in the NFL until the Bills went out and acquired a true #1 receiver in Stefon Diggs. Whatever, Giants fans probably shouldn't underestimate how impactful a really good receiver can have on a team.

Indeed, in addition to the Bills' Allen, Joe Burrow didn't really take off in Cincinnati until the Bengals' selected Ja'Marr Chase, his former teammate at LSU with the 6th in 2021, while there questions being asked in Miami whether Tua Tagovcailoa was indeed a legitimate franchise QB before the Dolphins brought in Tyreek Hill and Jaylen Waddle. And we could go and name QBs from Jaylen Hurts to Geno Smith whose careers improved dramatically once given elite receivers with which to work.

And one can also look at the Giants own history. Back in 2008, for example, they appeared to be on cruise control to a possible second straight Super Bowl appearance before Plaxico Burress shot himself – and his career – in the leg and the 11-1 Giants finished the season 1-4 and crashed out of the playoffs in the first round. They were crowned champions again in 2011 with Eli throwing to a couple of Pro Bowl receivers in Hakeem Nicks and Victor Cruz, only to have the bottom fall out the following season, which coincided with Nicks being injured and never playing at that level again. And while there has been a tendency to dismiss the impact of Odell Beckham, the reality is that Eli had the best three-year run of his career from 2014-2016 during which the Giants had a top 10 offense in both 2014 and 2015 and made the playoffs in 2016. It's also hard not to notice that the bottom really fell out for the Giants in 2017 around the time that Odell was injured. Indeed, the fact is that over the course of his career, Eli was a very good QB when he had special receivers, but was closer to ordinary when he didn't..."

Jolly, I think Daboll probably wanted Maye due to his potential freakish great tools converting into a Justin Herbert or even Josh Allen 20 in the NFL. Short of that, they probably reasoned no other QB really was a clear upgrade to the upside of a DJ if he is given better tools to work with.

The points GBN made about better receivers was on point.

I think the following at least from a potential standpoint can be looked at as a positive:

1. Good offensive minded coaching staff in place,   
2. Good OL coach finally in place,   
3. Decent WR unit with an average to above WR1 in place 
4. Decent enough OL with not too many rookies with long learning curves and some depth in case of injury 

5. A capable enough RB by committee core with some pass blocking ability   ....maybe

I worry about #5 the least in a well constructed pass-heavy scheme and Schoen/Daboll didn't seem to mind losing Barkley, so I think they feel the same way.

Quote from: kingm56 on Today at 10:32:29 AMThis requires further explanation. Are you claiming the HC and OC are part of the problem?  If so, can you explain their successes in KC and Buff?  I also believe the Giants have some talent that's being hindered by the QB. Is it a coincidence that Robinson started to emerge with the backup QB?  Can we also agree that DJ enjoyed playing with a top 3 LT and RB? 

If you believe Kafka didn't have issues, how do you explain Daboll seeking to take away (and he did take away multiple times last season) play-calling duties?

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on Today at 10:24:23 AMThe most unbelievable part in this equation hasn't been DJ's production as much as it has been an organization's abject failure to provide him with anywhere near a functional supports system.

I think some are looking for something to blame and have trouble seeing that the support system when you try and best apply metrics to it and it's overall ineptitude that it would rank among the league worst if not the league worst over the last five years when you account for both the coaching side and the talent side of the main things needed for a successful passing game.

This requires further explanation. Are you claiming the HC and OC are part of the problem?  If so, can you explain their successes in KC and Buff?  I also believe the Giants have some talent that's being hindered by the QB. Is it a coincidence that Robinson started to emerge with the backup QB?  Can we also agree that DJ enjoyed playing with a top 3 LT and RB? 

His support system was indeed below average; however, you lost me on the coaching aspect.  I also think it's a bit of stretch to say his Kitchen was completely bare.

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on Today at 10:19:09 AMI mean when I look at the last 5-7 OL coaches we have had that might be the greatest joke of all time!

Most of them are not even coaching OL anymore in the NFL and many of them had very, very weak resumes to boot. That was a horrific job by this organization finding a good one. Now this Bracillo guy his resume and rep when you listen to a bunch of guys who either know him closely or have played under him are absolutely glowing. Been waiting a long time for them to get this position on the staff adequate addressed.

I would argue the O-line coach is as important as your OC and DC.  First off, they are the only position to coach 5 players on the field (6 in heavy tight-end packages), with the possible exception of a DB coach in a system that plays mostly nickel.  Second, I don't think there is a position in the league where prospects come in less prepared for NFL games than O-linemen.  Finally, with the CBA limits, coaching O-linemen has never been more challenging owing to the lack of time in pads.