What a difference a name can make at QB

[MightyGiants]

First, the immediate sense I got watching the Giants last night was that Tyrod seemed more relaxed and functional in the Giants' offense.  I was wondering if the offense would have done as well with Daniel Jones behind center.   

Still, over the past few years, we have seen many fans create a standard that the Giants' QB needs to be held.   To that end:

Taylor only threw for 200 yards

The Taylor led offense failed to score a TD with 5 trips into the red zone including 2 snaps at the one yard line

Taylor cost the Giants 3 - 7 points by switching a pass play to run and allowing the clock to expire at the 1-yard line at the end of the second half.

The Giants were only able to score 9 points against an injury-depleted Bills defense even with Barkley adding 93 rushing yards

Taylor also enjoyed the advantage of playing with a lead (first time this season)


So I am torn between former Pro Bowler Tyrod Taylor not looking that bad and perhaps better than Jones on the field and the way we have been conditioned to evaluate Daniel Jones which suggests Taylor had a very poor night.

I really don't know what to make of things.


We could have witnessed evidence that Jones is shot (although it's possible Jones could regain his poise, but that doesn't happen often)

We could have just seen flash with no substance since production was no better with Taylor than with Jones

It's possible that hearing so much negative toward Jones (as illustrated in this thread) maybe things would have gone better with Jones.  Maybe Jones doesn't check to a run, or they score a TD in one of the 5 trips to the red zone, and the Giants win.

Frankly, I am not sure what the answer is based on the information available.

I guess the silver lining in all of this is that the Giants season may be effectively over, but things certainly will remain interesting.

[Doc16LT56]

Let's keep in mind the majority of Saquon's yards came on two carries in the 4th quarter. Other than those two carries he was ineffective last night with 40 yards on 22 carries. Considering Buffalo's run defense hasn't been that great, they did what they had to do to shut down Barkley. Not sure how much of that was on Barkley's ankle.

Taylor did much better at managing the game than I would've expected Jones to do. If Jones is back there I think the Buffalo pass rush would've been more effective and the game would've looked a lot different.

Having said that, Taylor is not the answer for this team. He's just a cheap bridge for a franchise in need of an answer at QB.

[MightyGiants]

Let's keep in mind the majority of Saquon's yards came on two carries in the 4th quarter. Other than those two carries he was ineffective last night with 40 yards on 22 carries. Considering Buffalo's run defense hasn't been that great, they did what they had to do to shut down Barkley. Not sure how much of that was on Barkley's ankle.

Taylor did much better at managing the game than I would've expected Jones to do. If Jones is back there I think the Buffalo pass rush would've been more effective and the game would've looked a lot different.

Having said that, Taylor is not the answer for this team. He's just a cheap bridge for a franchise in need of an answer at QB.

Those two long runs gave the Giants a FG or a third of the Giants points last night

[katkavage]

They are interchangeable pretty much. The Giants need to somehow find a top tier QB. They just don't have one on their roster now.

[Uni]

There were a bunch of sideline fades that I can't remember Jones completing. Those were passes that Taylor dropped in the bucket with limited separation. Those are throws Jones doesn't even attempt.

IMO, Jones would have been sacked at least 8 times if he played last night.

[Doc16LT56]

They are interchangeable pretty much. The Giants need to somehow find a top tier QB. They just don't have one on their roster now.

That's my takeaway we well. At least with Tyrod we don't have to hear about how all the players around him failed him.

[Ed Vette]

Tyrod Taylor proved that when the pocket collapses he could still step up and find space and give himself time to look downfield and attempt to make a play instead of feeling pressure and rolling out of the pocket to the right sideline, losing half the field. He also didn't make any critical passing mistakes that changed the momentum of the game. The Giants had two starters on their Oline last night and had a backup LT leave the game which forced Pugh there with no preparation. He also got rid of the ball faster and sometimes QB's create their own pressure as Jones often does.

[T200]

Tyrod Taylor proved that when the pocket collapses he could still step up and find space and give himself time to look downfield and make attempt to make a play instead of feeling pressure and rolling out of the pocket to the right sideline, losing half the field. He also didn't make any critical passing mistakes that changed the momentum of the game. The Giants had two starters on their Oline last night and had a backup LT leave the game which forced Pugh there with no preparation. He also got rid of the ball faster and sometimes QB's create their own pressure as Jones often does.

Jones will have the opportunity to play behind the Pugh line next week against Washington. We will compare apples to apples.

[DaveBrown74]

Jones will have the opportunity to play behind the Pugh line next week against Washington. We will compare apples to apples.

I can't agree with the bold part. One is a home game against a defense that is third worst in the league in points allowed per game. The other was a road game against a defense that is third best in the league in points allowed per game.

If we're looking at these two QBs in isolation of these two games, an adjustment has to be made in the analysis to account for the wide gap in caliber of these two defenses.

[MightyGiants]

https://x.com/clt_ny/status/1713910069153153045?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

[T200]

I can't agree with the bold part. One is a home game against a defense that is third worst in the league in points allowed per game. The other was a road game against a defense that is third best in the league in points allowed per game.

If we're looking at these two QBs in isolation of these two games, an adjustment has to be made in the analysis to account for the wide gap in caliber of these two defenses.

Good point about the disparity in the quality of the defenses and the venues.

I was focused on seeing both of them play behind the same offensive line personnel to eliminate the "yeah, but..." responses. Probably an exercise in futility anyway. 

[Gmo11]

First, the immediate sense I got watching the Giants last night was that Tyrod seemed more relaxed and functional in the Giants' offense.  I was wondering if the offense would have done as well with Daniel Jones behind center.   

Still, over the past few years, we have seen many fans create a standard that the Giants' QB needs to be held.  To that end:

Taylor only threw for 200 yards

The Taylor led offense failed to score a TD with 5 trips into the red zone including 2 snaps at the one yard line

Taylor cost the Giants 3 - 7 points by switching a pass play to run and allowing the clock to expire at the 1-yard line at the end of the second half.

The Giants were only able to score 9 points against an injury-depleted Bills defense even with Barkley adding 93 rushing yards

Taylor also enjoyed the advantage of playing with a lead (first time this season)


So I am torn between former Pro Bowler Tyrod Taylor not looking that bad and perhaps better than Jones on the field and the way we have been conditioned to evaluate Daniel Jones which suggests Taylor had a very poor night.

I really don't know what to make of things.


We could have witnessed evidence that Jones is shot (although it's possible Jones could regain his poise, but that doesn't happen often)

We could have just seen flash with no substance since production was no better with Taylor than with Jones

It's possible that hearing so much negative toward Jones (as illustrated in this thread) maybe things would have gone better with Jones.  Maybe Jones doesn't check to a run, or they score a TD in one of the 5 trips to the red zone, and the Giants win.

Frankly, I am not sure what the answer is based on the information available.

I guess the silver lining in all of this is that the Giants season may be effectively over, but things certainly will remain interesting.

I think you answered your own question though.  If you can't decide if Jones is objectively better than a 35 year old journeyman QB who has never in his life demonstrated the ability to deserve a long term big money contract, then that's kind of a problem for Jones.  We should have been able to come out of that game knowing for sure that nobody could function in those circumstances and that it wasn't Jones' fault that he's look God awful this season.  However, Taylor stepped in and I would say his actual football playing seemed to be an improvement. 

Now, he did have one of the absolute dumbest decisions in recent memory also thrown in there at the end of the half.  So it wasn't all roses for him either.  I don't think Jones checks out of that pass, at least I hope not, but I also don't know if the coaches have been trusting him enough to even give him the option to check out of plays at all.  I don't recall many instances at all of him doing that the past couple seasons.

So for me, I think if you sub Jones in for that specific play with 14 seconds left in the half, and Taylor plays the rest of the game the Giants win.  But if you play Jones the entire game...I'm not so sure.  Taylor showed touch and accuracy that we haven't seen from Jones this season and perhaps more importantly a willingness to throw the ball past 5 yards downfield. 

The Giants were severely out-manned last night.  They had no business being even in that game let alone in position to win it.  Taylor didn't play great, but he played good enough for the team to win.  Jones hasn't really done a lot of that this season.

[True Blue]

I can't agree with the bold part. One is a home game against a defense that is third worst in the league in points allowed per game. The other was a road game against a defense that is third best in the league in points allowed per game.

If we're looking at these two QBs in isolation of these two games, an adjustment has to be made in the analysis to account for the wide gap in caliber of these two defenses.

While this has some merit for sure, if that is the case, if Washington suddenly starts getting after Jones again like recent weeks, it will still provide some valuable insights as DJ should have plenty of time to throw based on the defensive drop off

[MightyGiants]

Factually speaking Taylor produced no better (and some might argue a bit worse) than Jones.  What's more important production or how they look producing?

[StompYouOT]

The team was more confident with Taylor and he got rid of the ball faster. Attempts and make plays Jones doesn't. He doesn't score a ton of points but this was the ONLY game against a good team we were competitive .

Taylor is not the answer but he is much better in my opinion running the offense. Jones contract will go down as one of the worst ever