The talent available
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Great read for a Sunday morning Ceri. Looking forward to the last few positional reviews as we begin the home stretch to Thursday night. I couldn't help but notice the absense of Pierre-Paul's linemate George Selvie. unless you see him more as a 3-4 OLB than a 4-3 DE
One thing to consider is that the team could draft a DE and then trade Osi for another draft pick (perhaps the Ram's 2nd rounder).
Thanks as always Ceri. Based on that write up it seems like Pierre-Paul would be a tremendous mistake. A guy with little to no production on the field but wowed at the combine. Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Dunlap is intriguing as a 2nd rounder if he lasts that long. Seems like he might be a nice fit and at 47 I think he'd be an absolute steal. Wouldn't think about him at 15 though. With or without an Osi trade I wouldn't be too shocked if they picked a DE. We've seen them do it before with the Kiwi pick afterall.
Ceri - point as to Kindle and Graham. The folks that keep pining about his short arms are going to watch him become a productive starter at the next level and probably nab a pro-bowl selections. You can have short arms so long as you use them properly in fending off linemen. I like him more than Woodley for the simple reason that he has everything Woodley has but also has a non-stop motor whereas Woodley sometimes took a play off and disappeared when there was no reason to do so at Michigan. Plus, Woodley played with good players around him versus Graham who was the only good defensive player on that team. I will not be disappointed at all if the Giants grab Graham. At least we will be able to count on a linemen who can play the run equally as well as the pass. Woodley's tackles behind the scrimmage both this past season and throughout his career has been nothing short of spectacular and really highlights his non-stop motor.
I also like Kindle and think he can be a fine SLB. He is strong and he goes after it. He plays fast. He would also be a fine addition to our team. I don't care if we have Simtin. My guess is that taking Kindle would immediately take Simtin and relocate him to another position.
UK, appreciate much the hyper accurate analysis. I think this report will play a larger role come Draft Day than many suspect. I'm in the camp that believes Osi is Tradebait. I hope his rep will be sufficient to carry the day. Tuck is a warrior, but hasn't been healthy since the SB. Don't think it's realistic to expect more out of him than what we have seen past two seasons. Even with Kiwi's high revving motor, he's a slightly above average DE. Luv Tollefson, but he's strictly marginal depth.
Similar to DT, our DE's look better on paper than on the field.
Gotta think after what I've seen lately, Morgan could easily be BPA for us @ #15. A durable DE who's legit @ playin' the run & pass equally well @ a high level. Saw several reports exclaiming leadership potential.
Absent Morgan @ #15 & following the Osi Trade, I have Carrington in the 3rd rd. in my 3/13 Mock. He's tough as nails while holding the point of attack. His steadily improving pass rush makes for a nice upside.
Have to say I'd love to have Brandon Graham on the team. Gotta luv those guys that don't let their lack of measurables stop them from being dominant players. Heart and desire mean as much as the measurables. How else to explain guys like Tom Brady et al .....
Pierre-Paul - little or no production on the field? He was First Team - All Big East with 45 tackles and 16 of those for losses. His low career sack total is because he is a JUCO transfer and this is his only season at South Florida. At 6-5, 270 lbs and with very long arms, he is the prototypical pass rusher at the NFL level. Kiper currently has him rated second among DEs behind Morgan.
Kindle - the Giants are not going to take another down lineman and try to convert him to LB. Serge is strictly a 3/4 rushbacker and not a fit for the GMen.
Morgan - the Giants typically like their DEs to be tall (can't remember the last one drafted that was not 6-4 or taller). Morgan may be a very productive player - but at only 6-1 with short arms, he really is a better fit for a 3/4 team where he can rotate to rushbacker.
todge, checked a few sites, didn't c Morgan listed smaller than 6' - 3" 266 lbs. with 34 1/2" arms comin' out as a Junior age 20.
And JUCO or not, I'd take Brandon Graham over Pierre-Paul in a heartbeat regardless of how many backflips the dude can do. They said Elvis Dumervil was too small too and all he did was lead the league in sacks after dominating his conference. I'll always take the guy who dominated his conference over the guy who looks great at the combine. George Selvie looked just as good as Pierre-Paul over his career, if not better, and they played on the same team.
Todge, why are you projecting Kindle as only a LB in a 3-4? Lots of folks think he's a great candidate to be a SLB in a 4-3.
Elvis Dumervil fits well in the scheme he is in - he would not be a good fit for the Giants. Every team runs different defenses and tries to find players that match their schemes. The Giants have never had a 6-1 DE with 30 inch arms on their team - so I doubt they will be looking at Graham. Instead they look for 6-5 guys with long arms and wingspans - which is Pierre-Paul.
Pierre-Paul is the son of Haitian immigrants. Upon coming to this country, the language barriers prevented him from enrolling in four year colleges. He spent several years in community and junior colleges before enrolling at South Florida for his senior year. As evidenced by his 45 tackles, 6.5 sacks and First Team All Big East selection - he is more than just a gymnast. Granted, there is not a four year body of work to measure him by - thus the boom-or-bust tag is well deserved. But seeing that he didn't even start to play football until his senior year in high school, and given his prototypical body type - his best years are probably ahead of him.
Once again - it is not all about "production" and numbers. If it was, then Tim Tebow would be the #1 pick in the Draft. The NFL is full of busts who put up big numbers in college but whose skill-set does not translate into success at the Pro level.
Kindle has been a DE at Texas - so with his hand on the ground all those years, he may have a hard time learning his coverage responsibilities at the Sam LB position. Being that the Giants already have someone like that, I just don't see them picking another conversion project.
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George Selvie looked just as good as Pierre-Paul over his career, if not better, and they played on the same team.
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Pierre-Paul will be a Top 20 selection. Selvie will be a 3rd-4th Rounder. So the professional talent evaluators who do that for a living will be disagreeing with your assessment that Selvie looked better than Pierre-Paul.