The talent available
There are two players worthy of mid-late 1st round selection, another one in my top 40, another in my top 50 and one more in the top 75. Plenty of depth on day three with 'too slow' Tackles being converted to Guard
What do I think the Giants should do?
Quite what the Giants plans were at this position last year are unknown as they were disrupted before the season even began by the retirement on the eve of camp of RG Chris Snee, a pre-season injury to UFA Geoff Schwartz (who was scheduled to start at LG) and a combination of injury and a total failure to progress by RG Brandon Mosley. This led led to UFA John Jerry
Great stuff Ceri. Stuff I would add.
You mentioned seeing guys on the ground too often. In my scouting class we were taught that is an indication of a lack of balance and balance is something good offensive linemen need.
Erving may have struggled in his second meeting with Vic Beasley but he had won the first round. I would also point out that Erving was very raw as an offensive lineman. He is a guy the Giants could draft start at guard and work to develop him into their future LT (he had won awards as a LT after moving their from the D-line). Erving is the personification of versatility something the Giants seem to really value.
TomLinson sounds like a good second round pick. However I am actually troubled by this positive- "he
Maybe not that much different than Steve Young being a lawyer and we know how that worked out.
Is it possible that given the thinness at safety in the draft plus the fact that they signed some DL in FA, that they may actually target 2 OL players in round 1 and 2 such as a tackle in 1 and a guard in 2 assuming say White and Cooper are gone by the #9 pick? If they did that and those two players worked out, they likely could be set at OL for 5+ years and could forget about that position group for a while? This doesn't seem inconceivable to me given that they may want a swing tackle as many of us have advocated here, plus more interior help. Make that kind of investment at OL, Eli gets better protection, the Giants RBs (plus newly acquired Vereen) get more beef up front and may be more productive, then the Giants can target safety in round 3 or later along with other areas. Thoughts?
Quote from: Philosophers on April 11, 2015, 11:52:34 AM
Maybe not that much different than Steve Young being a lawyer and we know how that worked out.
I am not seeing the comparison. Steve Young did not excel academically while in college playing ball and Steve Young was not aware of the dangers concussions posed. As I said it's a concern. It's the sort of concern that you address in an interview. Doesn't mean I wouldn't draft him, but I would want to be sure football is his biggest passion (many draft busts are the result of lack of passion for the game). I would also want to get a feel for his life plan and how long he intended to play the game.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 11, 2015, 11:28:20 AM
Erving may have struggled in his second meeting with Vic Beasley but he had won the first round. I would also point out that Erving was very raw as an offensive lineman. He is a guy the Giants could draft start at guard and work to develop him into their future LT (he had won awards as a LT after moving their from the D-line). Erving is the personification of versatility something the Giants seem to really value.
TomLinson sounds like a good second round pick. However I am actually troubled by this positive- "he
I think Young excelled academically enough that he was going to law school while playing in the NFL. Not saying he is or is not of the caliber of the other player. You raise a very valid point though about this player's interest outside of football which in this case is a very legitimate career in medicine or science. As you noted, a team might view that really positively or wonder if his head is really into playing in the NFL.
UK, where do you stand on Matias?
Good read as always Ceri. Like I said in the Tackles thread I'm surprised you started off with the dancing elephants. You normally start with skill positions players then make your way to the guys in the trenches.
We appear to be on the same wavelength regarding Erving. He's the guy I want at 40 if we don't take an O-lineman in the 1st (and I hope we don't. IMO Pugh is a tackle not a guard). I wouldn't have a problem with Tomlinson but I question whether he can play LG or for that matter if he can play for us since we ask all our interior guys to pull.
Doc beat me to my one and only question. Since you don't like Jackson as a prospect, I guess it's safe to say you think even less of his linemate Matias. Or since you have so much on your plate with getting these previews done you forgot him?
Keep up the good work and I look forward to the next installment, which I'm guessing is centers
Quote from: DesG89 on April 11, 2015, 03:48:26 PM
Good read as always Ceri. Like I said in the Tackles thread I'm surprised you started off with the dancing elephants. You normally start with skill positions players then make your way to the guys in the trenches.
We appear to be on the same wavelength regarding Erving. He's the guy I want at 40 if we don't take an O-lineman in the 1st (and I hope we don't. IMO Pugh is a tackle not a guard). I wouldn't have a problem with Tomlinson but I question whether he can play LG or for that matter if he can play for us since we ask all our interior guys to pull.
Doc beat me to my one and only question. Since you don't like Jackson as a prospect, I guess it's safe to say you think even less of his linemate Matias. Or since you have so much on your plate with getting these previews done you forgot him?
Keep up the good work and I look forward to the next installment, which I'm guessing is centers
I normally start with positions of priority need once I'm satisfied I've seen everything I can see and have come to some firm conclusions. T or G are priorities. C certainly isn't. Next up will be DL's.
I know what you mean about Tomlinson but if we're looking to run the ball inside more and outside less you don't need Guards to pull longer distances. Look at the offense in Green Bay and note the Guards are bigger guys who move people off the ball and the C is smaller and mobile. Remember that Schwartz was originally slated to start at LG. I don't think we intended to use him to pull very often. I still think we'll draft a T making the need at G a moot point as Pugh will move. My thinking is if we don't move Pugh we needed to get bigger/nastier in the interior not draft a lighter bodied pulling Guard because then we'll have four technicians and one power guy. That's too odd a mix.
Matias wasn't forgotten. He's the opposite of Jackson in terms of strengths in his game and he's not much of an athlete. He's going in the late rounds.
Schwartz being signed last year is what makes me believe Pugh stays at RT. If the plan is to get bigger and more physical inside then that's not Pugh's game. He needs to stay outside where his athleticism and technique can be put to better use. I said it 2 years ago when I first saw him play and I'll say it again here. I look at Pugh I see a more athletic version of Doug Riesenberg. Not the biggest or strongest but a rock solid OT
Quote from: DesG89 on April 11, 2015, 08:17:41 PM
Schwartz being signed last year is what makes me believe Pugh stays at RT. If the plan is to get bigger and more physical inside then that's not Pugh's game. He needs to stay outside where his athleticism and technique can be put to better use. I said it 2 years ago when I first saw him play and I'll say it again here. I look at Pugh I see a more athletic version of Doug Riesenberg. Not the biggest or strongest but a rock solid OT
I'm gonna get splinters in my ass if I sit any more on the fence on this one =))
I'm not sure whether the plan is to replicate the 20007/11 line with a pulling LG and powerful RT or create a new version with athletic T's and two bigger Guards. The only thing I know for sure is the C will be the mobile Richburg, Beatty the LT and Schwartz one of the two G's. My belief is the plans are fluid dependent on the players available to them in the first two rounds and whether they go with a playmaker with their first pick.
Quote from: UKGiantsFan on April 12, 2015, 05:17:53 AM
Quote from: DesG89 on April 11, 2015, 08:17:41 PM
Schwartz being signed last year is what makes me believe Pugh stays at RT. If the plan is to get bigger and more physical inside then that's not Pugh's game. He needs to stay outside where his athleticism and technique can be put to better use. I said it 2 years ago when I first saw him play and I'll say it again here. I look at Pugh I see a more athletic version of Doug Riesenberg. Not the biggest or strongest but a rock solid OT
I'm gonna get splinters in my ass if I sit any more on the fence on this one =))
I'm not sure whether the plan is to replicate the 20007/11 line with a pulling LG and powerful RT or create a new version with athletic T's and two bigger Guards. The only thing I know for sure is the C will be the mobile Richburg, Beatty the LT and Schwartz one of the two G's. My belief is the plans are fluid dependent on the players available to them in the first two rounds and whether they go with a playmaker with their first pick.
The mention of Beatty made me realize. Beatty will never be a mauler as a run blocker. So it seems unlikely the Giants will be able to run with power to the left side even if they get a bigger stronger less mobile LG.
Here's my fearsome pick for round 5
Sean Hickey OT projected to OG
Why?
2 reasons - We LOVE Syracuse and team captains.
Quote from: dasher on April 19, 2015, 02:30:40 PM
Here's my fearsome pick for round 5
Sean Hickey OT projected to OG
Why?
2 reasons - We LOVE Syracuse and team captains.
Wouldn't shock me Dale
Might see an unbalanced line towards Beatty to help with the outside run game.More and more teams are doing it,also change splits from guard to tackle slightly.
The left side run blocking wasn't an issue LY as Beatty did fine with the smaller DE's and was the best run blocker on the team. I think we will see Richburg pulling from the Center position to either side at some point. I'd like to see better synchronicity in Strong Side alignment to the Run/Pass play side. Did anyone else think Eli rolled right more often last season?
When you are 29th in running no one is doing a good job .McAdoo has already made subtle changes last season to help Beatty in the run game .
Probably rolled to the right because of his throwing arm and lack of overall athleticism. Generally rolling away from the better pass rusher which limited the damage that the left side of the could inflict on the offense.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/splits/_/name/nyg/type/rushing/new-york-giants (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/splits/_/name/nyg/type/rushing/new-york-giants)
Sean, take a look at "By Play Direction". You will see that the left side averaged 4.6 ypc. Then look at the right side and it's 3.1 average with only 15 FD's. It's not great but the left side was pretty good in comparison. The problem imo was balance and if you go back to the 2007 season you will see both sides were equally effective. I know you have an astute mind so consider tendencies and the effect it had on defensive alignments in running situations.
Quote from: Hadron on April 20, 2015, 01:28:23 PM
Probably rolled to the right because of his throwing arm and lack of overall athleticism. Generally rolling away from the better pass rusher which limited the damage that the left side of the could inflict on the offense.
I meant designed plays as a rollout. You are correct though from this perspective.
My reasoning for the remarks are based on circumstances as well as result Ed. We all know Jerry is a horrific run blocker and signed as a backup and for this season we hope that's what he would play. McAdoo changed roles to aid Beatty on run plays as he struggles to get to second level.You are right on your facts about last season ,my assumptions how ever far fetched is Jerry wont be on the right side.
Quote from: chiller99 on April 21, 2015, 10:23:56 AM
My reasoning for the remarks are based on circumstances as well as result Ed. We all know Jerry is a horrific run blocker and signed as a backup and for this season we hope that's what he would play. McAdoo changed roles to aid Beatty on run plays as he struggles to get to second level.You are right on your facts about last season ,my assumptions how ever far fetched is Jerry wont be on the right side.
I agree on Jerry. I have wondered though if coming off that injury had any effect on his ability to play the position as he had 3 good games at the end of the season. Then I checked and found out that he never was a good run blocker, ever. I really believe that this line is one player from being a solid line. If I'm wrong about Schwartz then it's 2 players off. They need a starter from this draft and there is no question about it as far as I'm concerned.
bump