How did the Giants go from last season, where they played their backsides off to the point of performing far better than the talent on the roster, to this year, where everyone is hoping and praying the Giants will put a good effort into their play and at least play up to the talent level on the team? I appreciate that each team is different, but the team came into this season with more or less the same coaching staff and the core group of players intact. What happened? What changed?
Not saying it's the truth of this situation but it has been documented that people will strive to meet some goals then not work as hard once those goals were accomplished and maybe this should apply to the coaches with some of them feeling they have arrived.
We would all hope that the goal wasn't just one playoff win!
Another option is the loss of in the moment focus because the expectation is now greater so they are more worried about getting the win or proving the doubters incorrect instead of just taking care of the business at hand. We see this with players who sign a new big contract and they become too involved with proving the contract instead of being confident and playing in the moment.
Because this is still a work in progress. We are in Year 2 of a brand new regime after the franchise was run into the ground by the Mara/Reese/Gettleman & cronies. It's going to take at least a 3rd season to get a foundation built for the long term. Beginning of last season had a lot go right for the Giants with bounces winning a number of close games that could have easily gone the other way. A regression this season was likely coming and shouldn't be a surprise.
Quote from: Rambo89 on September 29, 2023, 09:51:53 AMBecause this is still a work in progress. We are in Year 2 of a brand new regime after the franchise was run into the ground by the Mara/Reese/Gettleman & cronies. It's going to take at least a 3rd season to get a foundation built for the long term. Beginning of last season had a lot go right for the Giants with bounces winning a number of close games that could have easily gone the other way. A regression this season was likely coming and shouldn't be a surprise.
I could understand a regression of performance, but it appears there has been a major regression of effort. I am not sure that can be explained away as part of a rebuilding process. If anything, you would think the effort would be better as there are more of Joe's and Brian's players on the field and in the locker room.
Press clippings.
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I can't explain the regression of effort, but the regression of performance is in line with expectations. I know when we did the final win prediction thread here right before the start of the season almost everyone was around 10 or 11 wins, but the rest of the public obviously didn't agree, given the 7.5 over/under.
Seasons evolve though, and it's still early. I think it's hard to draw big conclusions about the 2023 season at this point.
How did what happen? We're 3 games into the season and got spanked by 2 of the better teams in the league. We're 1-2, you guys make it sound like we're dead. We don't have nearly enough data points to make any meaningful conclusions.
Quote from: zephirus on September 29, 2023, 10:57:33 AMHow did what happen? We're 3 games into the season and got spanked by 2 of the better teams in the league. We're 1-2, you guys make it sound like we're dead. We don't have nearly enough data points to make any meaningful conclusions.
Regardless of the caliber of team face, there shouldn't be missed tackles (in my opinion)
The Giants went from 8 missed tackles per game, to 9.7 missed tackles per game. Considering that the Giants moved on from 5 of the top 10 Giants (in terms of the number of missed tackles), we should have expected an improvement in that metric, not a regression. The team even bolstered key areas like ILB and IDL with bigger-ticket free agents.
Quote from: zephirus on September 29, 2023, 10:57:33 AMHow did what happen? We're 3 games into the season and got spanked by 2 of the better teams in the league. We're 1-2, you guys make it sound like we're dead. We don't have nearly enough data points to make any meaningful conclusions.
I think the issue is we are coming off a season where we had a winning record and won a playoff game, and then this offseason on the whole seemed positive (net gained talent, pretty good health going into the season for a change, and looked good for the most part in camp/preseason). So far, we have looked like a Joe Judge or Pat Schurmur team for 10 out of the 12 quarters we have played. One of those losses was historically bad. Meanwhile some of the soundbites/social media stuff from both coaches and players have been disappointing.
So I'd say people are justifiably disturbed by how bad the team has looked and seemed so far. And I get that three games is not a lot, but it's not irrelevant either. We are one good half away from being 0-3, and 0-3 teams almost never make the playoffs.
- Bad tackling
- Questionable play calling
- Lack of pass rush
- QB not being able to do what EVERYONE said he would do after watching him in camp
- Country club training camp/lack of preseason reps
Quote from: MightyGiants on September 29, 2023, 09:59:22 AMI could understand a regression of performance, but it appears there has been a major regression of effort. I am not sure that can be explained away as part of a rebuilding process. If anything, you would think the effort would be better as there are more of Joe's and Brian's players on the field and in the locker room.
I don't see this as a regression of effort to this point in the season when most of the starters didn't get the reps in Preseason that they did a year ago.
It's the way the off-season, preseason, and first 3 games unfolded
I think the giants simply were not ready for Dallas period
Arizona is better if not much better than people realize
They played 49ers well for 3/4 of the game
So I think the poor line play and Dallas game are bringing the past 12 years of nightmares back to us all
Giants need better line play and better QB play no it's not just the poor line; jones isn't what's wrong but he isn't living up to his contract and taking care of his business either.
Defense needs to start creating leverage, playing in space better and executing fundamentals when tackling. Thibs and wink need to be sympatico.
Schoen needs 1 of his 2 1st RD picks to start performing
Special teams needs a foot in their ass
Too little practice, too little live reps, too much $ for unproven players, too much hype, too much media; resulting in too much poor quality uninspired play.
All that being said I'm looking forward to Monday night
This is year 2 in a rebuild that will take at absolute minimum 3-3.5 years
There are alot of new pieces on both sides of the ball, they are still learning and trying to gel and figure things out. 2 rookie CBs are starting that is a tall task for them. Rookie Center as well.
Letting Love go was a mistake in my opinion, Barkley should have been traded at the deadline and DJ was over paid (don't argue with me over DJ it isn't what I am try to do here, if anyone quotes me to debate it's getting ignored). They have no depth behind Barkley which was a mistake. Should have kept Robinson or added someone else to back him up instead of resigning Bredia in my opinion.
Some guys are being eased back in after suffering injuries a year ago.
The schedule is much tougher and they makers of it did the opening slate no favors for them
As these rookies and returning players gel, get some seasoning and the pieces snap into place, we should see more improvement as the season goes on
We also way overachieved last year
In a word, "ATTITUDE". Last season the players had that. They always thought they were not given enough respect and played like they wanted that respect. This year, how many people figured the Giants to be a very competitive team--most so that we are on many prime-time games. The players started believing and buying into the hype that they were a good and contending team. Their attitude has changed from being a hungry, disrespected team to one in which they think all they have to do is show up and they can win. I also think this is so for our coaching staff. Some of the game plans have left us scratching our heads, both offensively and defensively. And MAYBE (and I'm not saying this as a fact) but he is void of HC experience so he may be at a loss as to how to right this ship.
Yea I'm not sure I see a lack of effort as much as just a lack of good fortune. Last season they opened up with a flukey win and that sort of set the tone for the rest of the season. That snow balled into a team that felt like no matter what happened in the first 3 quarters if they were close they could figure out a way to get a win when they needed it. This year they opened up with a hellacious ass kicking the likes of which are rarely seen at the NFL level. It's hard not to let that set a tone as well.
I know they bounced back against Arizona but that was only for 2 of the 4 quarters. I think they need an unexpected win to sort of get them back mentally into the mode of "we can win these games". Just something to turn the momentum of the season around. 2 quarters against Arizona isn't really going to do it when the first two quarters of that game they were as bad as they were against Dallas.
Seattle is a better team on paper. If they can hang around and win at the end that would be helpful. If they go out there and beat the brakes off Seattle that would also help.
The simplest answer is usually the correct one.
This league will separate the pretenders quick. For guys new on the scene, year 2's kind of that defining year. You may catch people off guard year 1 when there's no book, but year 2, every DC has you figured out. Can we stay ahead of the curve? In the NFL, you either get better or you get worse. The good coaches get buy in and sustain, year to year.
Thankfully, we're only 3 weeks into the season so we don't have a definitive answer yet. But right now, it looks like year 2 McAdoo, Shurmur & Judge. Uninspired football, no leadership and no playmakers. Hard to believe.
Quote from: 4 Aces on September 29, 2023, 06:00:27 PMThe simplest answer is usually the correct one.
This league will separate the pretenders quick. For guys new on the scene, year 2's kind of that defining year. You may catch people off guard year 1 when there's no book, but year 2, every DC has you figured out. Can we stay ahead of the curve? In the NFL, you either get better or you get worse. The good coaches get buy in and sustain, year to year.
Thankfully, we're only 3 weeks into the season so we don't have a definitive answer yet. But right now, it looks like year 2 McAdoo, Shurmur & Judge. Uninspired football, no leadership and no playmakers. Hard to believe.
Disagree about Year 2 is a defining season for a new regime. Think we need to give it until Year 3.
Quote from: Rambo89 on September 29, 2023, 06:09:16 PMDisagree about Year 2 is a defining season for a new regime. Think we need to give it until Year 3.
Do we have examples of the multi-year rebuilds with a slump in year two?
Quote from: MightyGiants on September 30, 2023, 08:00:01 AMDo we have examples of the multi-year rebuilds with a slump in year two?
Jim Fassel Giants took a step back in years two and three before the SB run in Year four.
On Edit:
Another is Andy Reid in KC. In 2013 his first season the Chiefs went 11-5 making the playoffs. The following season they regressed going 9-7. It wasn't until 2015 that they hit their stride under him where they haven't missed the playoffs since.
GIANTS LACK SWAGGER
They tend to want to draft choirboys and thus the lack of personality. Their fans are pretty quiet and on average a bit long in the tooth, low energy
GIANTS LACK PASSION
The QB is somewhat "Robotic" and that spreads through the offense. Need to get him and the team fired up somehow
GIANTS ARE LIKE A BEATEN DOG
So many losses to the Eagles and Cowboys in a row (i've lost count) and on Nationaly televised games has left them listless and finding new ways to lose each week. They really dont beleive in themselves
Its been many moons since they have had a blowout game in their favor
- no turnovers
- no run game
- poor tackling
- weak LBers
- no downfield passing
- turnstiles for an Oline
- horrific play calling (that and the lack of a run game or downfield passing) allows opponents to cheat and load up the LOS- 6-7-8-9 in the box
You can almost predict what play comes next and their seems to be very very few plays they prefer and they use them continually
NFL's most predictable offense
lets face it Schoen has shown no genius at drafting and acquiring the right players
he's let a few like Ritchie James and Julian Love just walk away
Im beginng to become concerned about our leadeships ability to find a path out of the woods
Hope they make me eat my words though
Quote from: MightyGiants on September 30, 2023, 08:00:01 AMDo we have examples of the multi-year rebuilds with a slump in year two?
none that I can remember....then again we havent had many rebuilds. Long stretches of wandering the desert
Sometimes the lack of overall dominance with 4 Lombardi's in the trophy case amazes me
when we do get to a SB we generally win them
Quote from: BluesCruz on September 30, 2023, 02:22:48 PMnone that I can remember....then again we havent had many rebuilds. Long stretches of wandering the desert
Sometimes the lack of overall dominance with 4 Lombardi's in the trophy case amazes me
when we do get to a SB we generally win them
Again as I said above the KC Chiefs under Andy Reid.
Just to throw in another recent one, Sean McDermott takes over as Bills coach in 2017 and goes 9-7 that year. In year two (Allen's first season) they regress substantially to 6-10. Pretty much since then they've been a top 5 NFL team.
There are a number examples of year two regressions by successful coaching regimes. The idea that these multi-year rebuilds are always linear is just not factually accurate.
the team's not that good. not good enough yet for top of the league teams. last season (1) luck (2) schedule (3) Wink
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