who is your vote for biggest disappointment? you can pick one player who was injured, and one who wasnt.
injured- obviously waller. we had huge hopes for this guy to be a dominant force and he basically hobbled his way through what little he played. sat out the rest. close second here for ojulari.
not injured- daniel bellinger. this guy was supposed to explode this year. and had a huge opportunity to do so when waller went down. hes done nothing. could be a schematic thing. but the way our O operates, he should be putting up at least 5/50 every game.
Easily Neal for me. I was hoping (though not confident) that his rookie year was just a rough start to the NFL and that he'd improve this year. Instead he has continued to stink, he has continued to be brittle, and he totally insulted the fans. Just an all-around disaster.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 16, 2023, 02:59:11 PMEasily Neal for me. I was hoping (though not confident) that his rookie year was just a rough start to the NFL and that he'd improve this year. Instead he has continued to stink, he has continued to be brittle, and he totally insulted the fans. Just an all-around disaster.
For sure. We still don't know what this high resource value is going forward to help out weakest unit. RT, gaurd, back up? As of now, I think we sign a decent value FA with RT/ gaurd flex.
Bellinger is a good one. Perhaps they invested too much planning into Waller at his expense. He looks slower, though.
Neal wins this award easily..however. Simply no progress or focus you feel is coming from him. Phillips is better. Yikes. Then..there is Daniel Jones. Lost..errand..confused and crushed in short order. He was terrible.
Daniel Jones.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 16, 2023, 02:59:11 PMEasily Neal for me. I was hoping (though not confident) that his rookie year was just a rough start to the NFL and that he'd improve this year. Instead he has continued to stink, he has continued to be brittle, and he totally insulted the fans. Just an all-around disaster.
Gotta be the obvious choice. He's shown absolutely no signs of being an NFL tackle.
Evan Neal- had he just lived up to his drafted slot, this season would have gone differently
I don't think Neal has even played a full 16 games yet so I'm ok with him not leaping off the page and being a superstar just yet. I still think he ends up being a dependable starter with new coaching.
I can't say Jones because I never had high hopes for him previously so there was really no way for him to disappoint me.
I'll go with Mckinney as after the end of 2021 most of us all thought we had a ballhawk on our hands and were excites for his growth. 2022 he didn't have any ints but he was learning Winks system but more importantly was doing the dirty work of usually covering the team we played best players. I remember last season him putting a lid on Henry, CMC, and the Vikings TE in the playoffs and thinking we really had something despite his injuries. Now turn to this year and he's done nothing.
I think Jones is a fair answer, because even if you weren't high on his potential, in 2022 he managed to stay healthy and managed to at least be a serviceable game manager type in a training wheels style offense and lead the team to a 9-7-1 record and a playoff win. While that should not represent the zenith of anyone's aspirations for a $40mm a year QB or the team he plays for, it was clearly better than anything he had done in the past.
This season however he played absolutely terribly and then suffered two serious injuries. The idea of his maybe having gotten past his penchant for constantly getting hurt was eradicated this season in a dramatic way, and he also played at a truly dismal level prior to getting hurt. And then it was insult added to injury for him to get outplayed first by a journeyman backup in his twilight years and then by an undrafted walk-on rookie with zero NFL experience, both playing behind the same offensive line.
Definitely a highly disappointing season for Jones for multiple reasons.
The nice thing for Jones of course is that he still gets to be a pretty rich man, despite all of the above.
not in any particular order: Dabol Jones Neal Ojulari
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Evan Neal and it is not close. I thought he was ready to be Jack Conklin. Now more like Jack in the Box.
Evan Neal by a mile. He's a complete bust. I'm willing to say right now there is no salvaging him as an NFL OT.
Bellinger was so overrated by the fan base coming off his rookie year. Not sure why so many were expecting some big leap, but this is who Bellinger is.
The one player who if played up to expectations would have changed the season is Daniel Jones. I have to ask myself if Jones would have won the last three games and I can't say yes for certainty.
#1. Daniel Jones- Obvious- not a starter, should be a backup. Got paid and regressed
Does not possess a natural feel for QB and not able to rally the troops
Honorable Mentions
Evan Neal- Did anyone bother to ask if he could block before drafting
Paris Campbell- Riche James replacement Ugggg. My Vote for worst Free Agent pickup of Century
Saquon Barkley- Overpaid, Cannot get the tough yards- not his fault he is not rotated
Tyrod Taylor- Overpaid, Handing a victory to the Bills, an injury looking to happen
Jason Pinnock- Should learn to wrap up a runner, poor tackling, good pass defender
Waller- should spend some time before games getting those hammies massaged by the training staff
All these but Pinnock should be cut or traded. Jones can be #1 Backup to DeVito next year if we cannot find a willing trader
I don't view Waller as a disappointment. He is only a disappointment if you had unrealistic expectations.
Basically, if you looked at his career and decided to use his 2019 and 2020 seasons as your baseline expectation for him, rather than his 2021 and 2022 seasons, then yes, you'd be disappointed. But clearly that wouldn't have been very logical.
We got what we paid for with Waller, simple as that. He has not disappointed if your expectations were realistic. He is what he is at this point.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 17, 2023, 08:20:36 AMI don't view Waller as a disappointment. He is only a disappointment if you had unrealistic expectations.
Basically, if you looked at his career and decided to use his 2019 and 2020 seasons as your baseline expectation for him, rather than his 2021 and 2022 seasons, then yes, you'd be disappointed. But clearly that wouldn't have been very logical.
We got what we paid for with Waller, simple as that. He has not disappointed if your expectations were realistic. He is what he is at this point.
Do you remember the thread poll on who would have the most yards and TD's? As I recall Waller was at the top. Some predicted he would have over 1000 yards. I think I voted for Slayton. But Waller after being out so many games is still a fairly close second in yards and in receptions. His problem as you know has been availability. I actually think he can have a lot of success with TD.
Surprised there were no mentions of Josh Ezeudu. A high 3rd round pick on a guard usually gets a team a solid starter.
Daniel Jones #1 - I was willing to open my mind to last season and the subsequent contract extension, that the FO & Daboll were seeing more than I did heading into this year.
**I will honorably mention John Mara as I have to believe Schoen & Daboll have better "football eyes" than I do, so my assumption is there was some added pressure there**
My #2 is Schoen for two reasons:
1) is DJ, assuming, the above mentioned, as a GM you need to have the courage of your convictions.
2) his inability to properly address the OL, especially both OG. Pugh is a nice story, but he's not by any means the answer heading into next season not to mention long term. Let's not forget his injury history.
So in summary: DJ & Schoen are my biggest disappointments this season.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 17, 2023, 09:08:45 AMSurprised there were no mentions of Josh Ezeudu. A high 3rd round pick on a guard usually gets a team a solid starter.
I would agree he has been a major disappointment. It is impossible for me to put him above Neal though, given the investment made. Moreover, Ezeudu at least showed some flashes when he stepped in for Thomas at LT. I'm not saying he was great, but there were games where he looked better at LT than Neal did at RT.
He's been a big disappointment though, no doubt.
Quote from: BluesCruz on December 17, 2023, 04:35:17 AM#1. Daniel Jones- Obvious- not a starter, should be a backup. Got paid and regressed
Does not possess a natural feel for QB and not able to rally the troops
Honorable Mentions
Evan Neal- Did anyone bother to ask if he could block before drafting
Paris Campbell- Riche James replacement Ugggg. My Vote for worst Free Agent pickup of Century
Saquon Barkley- Overpaid, Cannot get the tough yards- not his fault he is not rotated
Tyrod Taylor- Overpaid, Handing a victory to the Bills, an injury looking to happen
Jason Pinnock- Should learn to wrap up a runner, poor tackling, good pass defender
Waller- should spend some time before games getting those hammies massaged by the training staff
All these but Pinnock should be cut or traded. Jones can be #1 Backup to DeVito next year if we cnnot find a willing trader
I actually felt Pinnock was playing quite well as the season progressed. The loss of Love defensive play and leadership has been felt. Waller looked good for the short time we saw him. Let's hope today he comes up big - I'm interested to see Devito learn/add the over the middle pass into his repertoire. I also thought Gray was gonna show us more. My other BIG disappointment was Gano.
Neal is my disappointment. Hoped year 2 he come into his own and was at least serviceable on the right.
He may need to move to G! He doesn't seem to be a OT at the NFL level.
I just hope JS doesn't pull a DG/Flowers and be stubborn on moving him.
https://gmenhq.com/posts/evan-neal-update-further-proves-ny-giants-should-move-him-guard-01hhqe8b0hse
1A - Jones
1B - Neal
Jones gets the top spot for me. A lot of folks say Neal but he was the RT last year and Jones excelled enough to get to, and win, a playoff game with Neal. Jones played well enough to earn a new contract.
This season, while a huge disappointment, Neal's performance was on par with what he did last year. Jones's performance fell off a cliff. Add to it his injuries (not his fault) and he's easily the biggest disappointment on the field.
To have his backup and subsequently his backup's backup, come in and perform so much better is the wakeup call this front office needs to move on from Jones after next season.
I think you can't blame Ezeudu for his play yet. The reason I say that is that he spent all camp last year at LT filling in for AT then rotated guard during the season, only to actually have a camp at LG to play LT in season. He hasn't been at one position this whole time.
is it bellinger's fault that they use him to block and hardly ever throw to him>? didn't he go one for one last week and a decent gain? Waller and Neal for me...Waller more because of the $$$$$$$$$$$$$
Jones of course
Then daboll accepting the kick in overtime against the Jets made no sense and we lost because of that
There was no reason.or.excuse to.do.that
I would put neal but he worked hard to improve and there was nothing he showed to think he would be able to
Then waller
Cliche as it may be, the best ability is availability. Quite obviously unavailability has come to define Darren Waller, who the Raiders traded to the Giants for that very reason, namely his having missed a total of 14 games over his previous 2 seasons. And now this year with the Giants, it's been the same old, same old. In a "what have you done for me lately" League, it has been a lost bet of nearly/ maybe not quite Gettleman proportion, I suppose, given his overall cost.
For me personally, and for now and until further notice, my biggest disappointment is 2022's 7th overall pick, Evan Neal. His failures to date have been every bit the liability or more to the Giants Offense than that of Darren Waller.
And so now, we find ourselves with half the wins of a year ago grasping at a cutlet for solace. Will it be a fulfilling menu? We ain't nowhere near an answer to that.
Cheers!
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 16, 2023, 02:59:11 PMEasily Neal for me. I was hoping (though not confident) that his rookie year was just a rough start to the NFL and that he'd improve this year. Instead he has continued to stink, he has continued to be brittle, and he totally insulted the fans. Just an all-around disaster.
thats a good one. i heard about all his training in the off season and fully expected at least moderate improvement. hes been brutal.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 16, 2023, 04:23:22 PMI don't think Neal has even played a full 16 games yet so I'm ok with him not leaping off the page and being a superstar just yet. I still think he ends up being a dependable starter with new coaching.
I can't say Jones because I never had high hopes for him previously so there was really no way for him to disappoint me.
I'll go with Mckinney as after the end of 2021 most of us all thought we had a ballhawk on our hands and were excites for his growth. 2022 he didn't have any ints but he was learning Winks system but more importantly was doing the dirty work of usually covering the team we played best players. I remember last season him putting a lid on Henry, CMC, and the Vikings TE in the playoffs and thinking we really had something despite his injuries. Now turn to this year and he's done nothing.
He definitely has not been noteworthy, other than playing every snap. the best ability is availability. also- while he has underperformed, he also hasnt been a major liability either.
Quote from: BluesCruz on December 17, 2023, 04:35:17 AM#1. Daniel Jones- Obvious- not a starter, should be a backup. Got paid and regressed
Does not possess a natural feel for QB and not able to rally the troops
Honorable Mentions
Evan Neal- Did anyone bother to ask if he could block before drafting
Paris Campbell- Riche James replacement Ugggg. My Vote for worst Free Agent pickup of Century
Saquon Barkley- Overpaid, Cannot get the tough yards- not his fault he is not rotated
Tyrod Taylor- Overpaid, Handing a victory to the Bills, an injury looking to happen
Jason Pinnock- Should learn to wrap up a runner, poor tackling, good pass defender
Waller- should spend some time before games getting those hammies massaged by the training staff
All these but Pinnock should be cut or traded. Jones can be #1 Backup to DeVito next year if we cannot find a willing trader
Pinnock needs to get batter at tackling, but he looks promising.
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 17, 2023, 09:08:45 AMSurprised there were no mentions of Josh Ezeudu. A high 3rd round pick on a guard usually gets a team a solid starter.
To be fair he was playing out of position most of the few games he played.
Quote from: B1GBLUE on December 18, 2023, 12:09:11 PMTo be fair he was playing out of position most of the few games he played.
True, but it wasn't like he was playing well when he was at guard. He failed to win a guard job in camp.
As I said earlier, Neal is also my answer. But let's not forget- as we are so willing and able to do- that we were quite pleased and on board when Schoen/Daboll chose him with the 7th overall. Indeed, there were some here who were surprised that they didn't grab Neal with their No.5. Of course, our only real skill in such matters is in second-guessing.
Cheers!
Quote from: Painter on December 18, 2023, 12:24:56 PMAs I said earlier, Neal is also my answer. But let's not forget- as we are so willing and able to do- that we were quite pleased and on board when Schoen/Daboll chose him with the 7th overall. Indeed, there were some here who were surprised that they didn't grab Neal with their No.5. Of course, our only real skill in such matters is in second-guessing.
Cheers!
Ikem Ekwonu (drafted 6th by the Panthers) was the other O-linemen many favored. He currently has a 62.3 PFF grade compared to Neal's 39.8.
Daniel Jones was my biggest disappointment. Although, I should not have been surprised. I didn't want the Giants to pay him 40Mil per season. I didn't think showed he was good enough in the passing game LY. He won mostly with his legs.
The 1st game against the Cowplops this season, I knew, just watching his face and body language that he was in panic mode from the beginning (I thought: "who could blame him with that OL"). But as the game went on, I realized he just doesn't have it. I was very disappointed with his play and command of the offense.
Quote from: miss86 on December 18, 2023, 12:51:30 PMDaniel Jones was my biggest disappointment. Although, I should not have been surprised. I didn't want the Giants to pay him 40Mil per season. I didn't think showed he was good enough in the passing game LY. He won mostly with his legs.
The 1st game against the Cowplops this season, I knew, just watching his face and body language that he was in panic mode from the beginning (I thought: "who could blame him with that OL"). But as the game went on, I realized he just doesn't have it. I was very disappointed with his play and command of the offense.
I'm not a 100% there yet, but you could well be right, Chris. I'm starting to wonder why Schoen/Daboll didn't just tag DJ and roll the dice with Saquon while hoping that another team wouldn't then outbid them. But so much for wisdom after the fact. Bah!
Cheers!
Quote from: Painter on December 18, 2023, 04:08:03 PMI'm not a 100% there yet, but you could well be right, Chris. I'm starting to wonder why Schoen/Daboll didn't just tag DJ and roll the dice with Saquon while hoping that another team wouldn't then outbid them. But so much for wisdom after the fact. Bah!
Cheers!
I think the reason they didn't tag him is because I believe there would of been a ~32mil hit on the cap. They could have just let him test the market, but that was too big of a risk. They were between a rock and a hard spot. I really thought DJ was worth around 20-25mil.
Quote from: miss86 on December 18, 2023, 04:35:48 PMI think the reason they didn't tag him is because I believe there would of been a ~32mil hit on the cap. They could have just let him test the market, but that was too big of a risk. They were between a rock and a hard spot. I really thought DJ was worth around 20-25mil.
Right you are. Yeah, I s'pose so.
Cheers!
I don't say Jones because I never expected anything from him besides mediocre so why be disappointed when he achieves that.
I know the thread says player and that has to be Neal, but if I could I would send a huge vote in for Daboll. There hd e been way too many games this year when the Giants just weren't prepared to play or were just lazy in their play and that is all on the head coach. He has also been out coached far too many times by mediocre coaches.
He shone last year but this year he needs to feel the heat. He has been just awful as a motivator and as a game time head coach.
Quote from: LennG on December 18, 2023, 10:09:14 PMI don't say Jones because I never expected anything from him besides mediocre so why be disappointed when he achieves that.
I know the thread says player and that has to be Neal, but if I could I would send a huge vote in for Daboll. There hd e been way too many games this year when the Giants just weren't prepared to play or were just lazy in their play and that is all on the head coach. He has also been out coached far too many times by mediocre coaches.
He shone last year but this year he needs to feel the heat. He has been just awful as a motivator and as a game time head coach.
i agree about daboll. at the end of the day, given all position coaches, personnel, its still his job to get it all in order. i think one thing a great coach does it make great adjustments. so far, he seems incapable of doing that. he deserves another year, but if we dont see some serious improvements in terms of preparation and effort next year, his seat will be red hot.