Per Jordan Ranaan
https://x.com/JordanRaanan/status/1744346768664375737?s=20
https://x.com/LicensePlateGuy/status/1744348910166876388?s=20
This is great news
McGaughey's dismissal is overdue. Glad it has finally happened.
Bobby Johnson was also a foregone conclusion. The Giants need to take the hiring of his replacement more seriously than they have O line coaching hires for the past several years.
Should we take this to mean both of the main coordinators are returning?
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 08, 2024, 08:28:14 AMMcGaughey's dismissal is overdue. Glad it has finally happened.
Bobby Johnson was also a foregone conclusion. The Giants need to take the hiring of his replacement more seriously than they have O line coaching hires for the past several years.
Should we take this to mean both of the main coordinators are returning?
I hope Wink gets another chance ....Kafka I would like gone. His playcalling is too stale . But maybe coaching staff feels different.
Daboll says he expects Wink and Kafka back but they might have other ideas. We have fired the two guys who had to go so that is an encouraging start.
Quote from: londonblue on January 08, 2024, 08:31:51 AMDaboll says he expects Wink and Kafka back but they might have other ideas. We have fired the two guys who had to go so that is an encouraging start.
What else did he say about it ? That he wants them back but its up to them pretty much ?
Two down... just waiting on Kafka.
Quote from: londonblue on January 08, 2024, 08:31:51 AMDaboll says he expects Wink and Kafka back but they might have other ideas. We have fired the two guys who had to go so that is an encouraging start.
Bingo the two that HAD TO GO ARE GONE!
Now we need Barnes to Retire and things are looking up!
I wouldn't be surprised if Kafka moves on. Now that the Bills OC was let go and it's who Dabs actually wanted I wouldn't be surprised if that is the move.
Wink going would stun me.
The Giants need to set the market for O-line coach pay. The biggest thing the Giants can do in terms of improvement is acquire a top-notch offensive line coach.
Always rough when someone loses a job, but it was time for both.
Now....someone needs to address the Medical staff & Ronnie Barnes.
Quote from: ozzie on January 08, 2024, 08:42:44 AMAlways rough when someone loses a job, but it was time for both.
Now....someone needs to address the Medical staff & Ronnie Barnes.
Barnes needs to retire this offseason
Quote from: ozzie on January 08, 2024, 08:42:44 AMAlways rough when someone loses a job, but it was time for both.
Now....someone needs to address the Medical staff & Ronnie Barnes.
Until they address that issue, this team's fortunes will always be kneecapped
Quote from: killarich on January 08, 2024, 08:32:47 AMWhat else did he say about it ? That he wants them back but its up to them pretty much ?
He expects them back but has not met them so the local press guy's interpretation, at least in their immediate reporting, was that this did not guarantee it. Whether the uncertainty is because Wink/Kafka possibly will receive approaches or will actively seek alternatives is tbd.
Quote from: T200 on January 08, 2024, 08:35:05 AMTwo down... just waiting on Kafka.
Tim,
Considering how many players came from Buffalo and talked about how they already knew the system, how much of an impact is realistic in terms of replacing Kafka? It seems to me this is essentially Kafka running Daboll's offense
I am doing a Snoopy Dance to this news! Now we can fix the line and ST.
I am still stunned no one will discuss whether the poor tackling on defense is on the players or the coaching.
https://x.com/geoffschwartz/status/1744357099616825358?s=20
Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on January 08, 2024, 08:37:35 AMBingo the two that HAD TO GO ARE GONE!
Now we need Barnes to Retire and things are looking up!
I wouldn't be surprised if Kafka moves on. Now that the Bills OC was let go and it's who Dabs actually wanted I wouldn't be surprised if that is the move.
Wink going would stun me.
I would expect him to hire Ken Dorsey if Kafka leaves and if Wink Goes , probably Leslie Frasier
Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on January 08, 2024, 08:45:01 AMBarnes needs to retire this offseason
Here's what I don't get about the Barnes situation:
If Mara has some sort of soft spot for him and doesn't want to fire him, fine. Why does he have to? Why not let him keep his office, his salary, and some sort of nice-sounding title but make someone else the the de-facto head? Kind of like what they did with Kevin Abrams.
Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on January 08, 2024, 09:02:58 AMI would expect him to hire Ken Dorsey if Kafka leaves and if Wink Goes , probably Leslie Frasier
Since they just fired their STC and O line coach, wouldn't they have already fired Wink and Kafka? Seems to me they're not getting fired. I guess they could leave on their own though, and maybe that is what you were referring to.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 08, 2024, 09:04:50 AMHere's what I don't get about the Barnes situation:
If Mara has some sort of soft spot for him and doesn't want to fire him, fine. Why does he have to? Why not let him keep his office, his salary, and some sort of nice-sounding title but make someone else the the de-facto head? Kind of like what they did with Kevin Abrams.
My take is that Barnes proves one of my professional rules- If you are not good at your job, be likable and charismatic. It's not just Mara who speaks highly of Barnes; the players and media speak highly of him as well (despite his objectively poor job performance). This is especially true if you are a specialist in a field the people you report know little about (making it harder for them to evaluate your job performance).
RB Coach now gone
https://x.com/Giants/status/1744356064630358345?s=20
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 08, 2024, 08:46:30 AMTim,
Considering how many players came from Buffalo and talked about how they already knew the system, how much of an impact is realistic in terms of replacing Kafka? It seems to me this is essentially Kafka running Daboll's offense
It certainly is a possibility, Rich.
With Kafka coming from KC and Reid's coaching tree, there could have been some fundamental differences. I don't know the guy and have no idea how he and Daboll get along. I also have zero clue as to who primarily develops the weekly game plan, who calls the plays, and how much involvement Daboll has in the offense.
Having said that, I just get the sense that Kafka is playing a passive-aggressive game with Daboll. He may have a vision of how he wants to run the offense and the two are butting heads. That's 1000% speculation on my part. Be that as it may, I'd rather he not be here next season.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 08, 2024, 09:09:04 AMMy take is that Barnes proves one of my professional rules- If you are not good at your job, be likable and charismatic. It's not just Mara who speaks highly of Barnes; the players and media speak highly of him as well (despite his objectively poor job performance). This is especially true if you are a specialist in a field the people you report know little about (making it harder for them to evaluate your job performance).
I get that, and that is a reason to not kick him to the curb. If he's a feel-good guy that everyone likes having around, and he doesn't want to retire, why not make him some sort of "chief executive consultant of training" or some other fancy-sounding title, and keep him at his same salary and all other perks of his job, but bring in someone highly qualified and more up to date to be the new head? I have a hard time believing Barnes (if he's as great of a guy as everyone says) would have a huge problem with that. The bottom line is we need new leadership in this area. They can accomplish that without actually handing Barnes a pink slip, if that's such an unthinkable thing. This is precisely what happened with Abrams. I just don't get why they won't consider something like this with Barnes. I have to conclude they continue to think he's great at his job, even though the end results are extremely poor year-in and year-out over many, many years now.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 08, 2024, 09:20:42 AMI get that, and that is a reason to not kick him to the curb. If he's a feel-good guy that everyone likes having around, and he doesn't want to retire, why not make him some sort of "chief executive consultant of training" or some other fancy-sounding title, and keep him at his same salary and all other perks of his job, but bring in someone highly qualified and more up to date to be the new head? I have a hard time believing Barnes (if he's as great of a guy as everyone says) would have a huge problem with that. The bottom line is we need new leadership in this area. They can accomplish that without actually handing Barnes a pink slip, if that's such an unthinkable thing. This is precisely what happened with Abrams. I just don't get why they won't consider something like this with Barnes. I have to conclude they continue to think he's great at his job, even though the end results are extremely poor year-in and year-out over many, many years now.
JS has to make some medical and training changes this off season!
Doing nothing and having another injury plagued year under him will have ramifications.
He cannot sit on his hands He has to make some changes and moves.
Great news this morning. Weakest links. Please don't hire friends unless they are best in class at what they do. That should be priority #1.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 08, 2024, 09:20:42 AMI get that, and that is a reason to not kick him to the curb. If he's a feel-good guy that everyone likes having around, and he doesn't want to retire, why not make him some sort of "chief executive consultant of training" or some other fancy-sounding title, and keep him at his same salary and all other perks of his job, but bring in someone highly qualified and more up to date to be the new head? I have a hard time believing Barnes (if he's as great of a guy as everyone says) would have a huge problem with that. The bottom line is we need new leadership in this area. They can accomplish that without actually handing Barnes a pink slip, if that's such an unthinkable thing. This is precisely what happened with Abrams. I just don't get why they won't consider something like this with Barnes. I have to conclude they continue to think he's great at his job, even though the end results are extremely poor year-in and year-out over many, many years now.
Barnes is 71 years old; the Giants really don't need to "fire him". They can let him retire or even return to a consulting role.
I am just praying someone looked at the sheer number of hamstring injuries and the excessive time lost to those hamstring injuries (along with a decade-plus-long history of being one of the most injured teams in the league) and finally do something about it.
Again, I wonder how much time was devoted to Special Teams and position coaching. That's on Daboll. The Defensive line and Edges all struggled with the exception of Dexter Lawrence was so disruptive he compensated for the others. Leo was there most of the season too. So, yeah they needed to go but I'm open to hearing the other side of this.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 08, 2024, 08:39:55 AMThe Giants need to set the market for O-line coach pay. The biggest thing the Giants can do in terms of improvement is acquire a top-notch offensive line coach.
Can't say it better than that. Go find, hire and pay a great OL coach
I guess the theory about the Bobby Johnson / Brian Daboll friendship preventing his firing has been proven wrong.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 08, 2024, 11:08:29 AMI guess the theory about the Bobby Johnson / Brian Daboll friendship preventing his firing has been proven wrong.
I thought that Bobby got the job via friendship, but this is the first I heard that their friendship means BJ was untouchable.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 08, 2024, 11:11:53 AMI thought that Bobby got the job via friendship, but this is the first I heard that their friendship means BJ was untouchable.
First time coach bringing along people he knows and trusts (i.e. professional "friends") isn't out of the question to me (especially when it wasn't all he did, hiring others from foreign orgs like Wink and Kafka). But holding on to those guys when they're out of their depth would be a bad indicator. Johnson is gone in a move that needed to be made given the complete failure of the line to develop any young players in 2 years. So Daboll's "friendship" doesn't defy performance, apparently.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 08, 2024, 11:11:53 AMI thought that Bobby got the job via friendship, but this is the first I heard that their friendship means BJ was untouchable.
It was mentioned in a thread that it was his best friend and people questioned whether or not Daboll would fire him. It struck me given the amount of time and effort these guys put in to being HCs that they would allow some doing a sub par job to stay on the staff when their own job is in question. Made no sense. Especially given early in my career I had to demote my best friend and I had far less invested than Daboll. Guess I find some of the conspiracy type theories unwarranted.
Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on January 08, 2024, 11:14:38 AMFirst time coach bringing along people he knows and trusts (i.e. professional "friends") isn't out of the question to me (especially when it wasn't all he did, hiring others from foreign orgs like Wink and Kafka). But holding on to those guys when they're out of their depth would be a bad indicator. Johnson is gone in a move that needed to be made given the complete failure of the line to develop any young players in 2 years. So Daboll's "friendship" doesn't defy performance, apparently.
I have to think Daboll knew he had no choice but to fire Bobby Johnson. The line's historically bad performance this year along with the poor drafting of (O-line coaches are heavily involved in draft evaluation) development of the O-linemen left only a single option.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 08, 2024, 08:45:05 AMUntil they address that issue, this team's fortunes will always be kneecapped
The Iggles agree with you:
RONNIE BARNES ... AHEM ... MetLife Stadium Turf Should Be Replaced (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/metlife-stadium-turf-should-be-boycotted-for-causing-injuries/ar-AA1mAUBS?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=f61c3eff54294471a5d6bd9f80c36c63&ei=63)
;)
Peace!
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 08, 2024, 11:18:05 AMI have to think Daboll knew he had no choice but to fire Bobby Johnson. The line's historically bad performance this year along with the poor drafting of (O-line coaches are heavily involved in draft evaluation) development of the O-linemen left only a single option.
I agree that Daboll had no real choice but to part ways with Bobby Johnson and, perhaps, with McGaughey also. I would however be less finger-pointy in regard to Johnson's culpability re the drafting of Olinemen given the team's more than a decade-long puny performance in that regard.
Cheers!
Whoever the best available OL coach is the Giants need to do whatever it takes to get that guy. Talk to former OL who can add input as to who the best OLs are right now and start poaching those staffs. Something has to be done. There's no reason that Will Hernandez and Feliciano can go elsewhere and look like absolute studs but here they couldn't figure out a basic DL stunt. There's no reason a prospect the level of Evan Neal should look like a damn turnstile out there. To me this team is closer than we might think provided that OL gets coached up properly and they get a real QB. Easier said than done but those are the things that need to get done immediately if not sooner.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 08, 2024, 08:39:55 AMThe Giants need to set the market for O-line coach pay. The biggest thing the Giants can do in terms of improvement is acquire a top-notch offensive line coach.
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. From McAdoo to Schumer to Judge to Daboll, they have all failed at this. Fix it
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 08, 2024, 08:58:57 AMhttps://x.com/geoffschwartz/status/1744357099616825358?s=20
PFF has the Falcons as the 6th best offense (down from 5) ahead of week 18
I think that's pretty impressive from this group
LT Jake Matthews
LG Matthew Bergeron
C Drew Dalman
RG Chris Lindstrom
RT Kaleb McGary
Is the assumption that Ledford would be allowed to leave Atlanta because the HC was fired? If he is under contract, are the Giants even allowed to talk to him if its not a promotion?
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 08, 2024, 12:34:35 PMIs the assumption that Ledford would be allowed to leave Atlanta because the HC was fired? If he is under contract, are the Giants even allowed to talk to him if its not a promotion?
I can't completely answer the questions other than how things usually work.
1- It's possible Ledford's contract has expired, but I suspect that isn't the case
2- Teams traditionally allow the coaches who worked under a fired head coach to interview for same level positions as teams allow the new HC to hire their own coaches, so there is no promise of a job next season
3- The Giants would need to ask permission (if he is still under contract). The Falcons would likely grant permission, but it's always possible they recognize what they have and refuse the request
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 08, 2024, 08:46:30 AMTim,
Considering how many players came from Buffalo and talked about how they already knew the system, how much of an impact is realistic in terms of replacing Kafka? It seems to me this is essentially Kafka running Daboll's offense
Bingo!!!
And since we as fans have NO idea how much or input or control our HC has on this (dare I say HIS) offense how can we separate Dabs from Kafka.
To me, they can not be separated. And c'mon, if you are HC of the NY Football Giants with your forte being offense don't you think what we are seeing on the field is Daboll's offense regarding playcalling and design. Would you pass that aspect off to a subordinate ???
Wink and Kafka are very safe if they want to stay. I am betting Coach Sparky is working on a very short leash starting next season. And if Coach Sparky values his job we had better see a whole lot of starters and cohesion starting with Preseason Game #1. We had better hit Game 1 of 2024 looking like a well oiled machine cuz 1 and 6 to start the season will not be acceptable.
If Kafka goes and I sure hope so AND, the Giants wanted to talk to the Bills 'temporary OC", they would need t he Bills permission as they are in the playoffs, at least that is my understanding.
https://x.com/DDuggan21/status/1744407160149151962?s=20
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants' OL coach search has to start with finding out how much it would take to lure Mike Munchak.
Another early name to keep in mind: Dave DeGuglielmo. He's already done two stints with the Giants (assistant OL 2004-08/OL coach second half of 2020). Worked with Daboll in Miami and New England.
12:14 PM · Jan 8, 2024
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Is Munchak still coaching? If they can get him it seems like a bunt.
My reaction to firings
DAH ! At the very least. Need new conditioning coach as well
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Wink resigned today
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Guess there is fire where there was smoke
Quote from: TDToomer on January 08, 2024, 08:57:55 AMI am doing a Snoopy Dance to this news! Now we can fix the line and ST.
I am still stunned no one will discuss whether the poor tackling on defense is on the players or the coaching.
Excellent point Toomer
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 08, 2024, 08:39:55 AMThe Giants need to set the market for O-line coach pay. The biggest thing the Giants can do in terms of improvement is acquire a top-notch offensive line coach.
Personally I'd call up Dante Scarnecchia and pay him whatever he wants to come out of retirement. He's one of the best the game has ever seen, and Daboll at least knows him.
Quote from: y_so_blu on January 08, 2024, 07:12:13 PMPersonally I'd call up Dante Scarnecchia and pay him whatever he wants to come out of retirement. He's one of the best the game has ever seen, and Daboll at least knows him.
He turns 76 in a few weeks and hasn't coached in four or five years, so I wouldn't hang my hat on that one.
Also "pay him whatever he wants" is not part of Mara's vocabulary.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 08, 2024, 07:32:19 PMAlso "pay him whatever he wants" is not part of Mara's vocabulary.
No but I get the impression it's part of Tish's
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Quote from: killarich on January 08, 2024, 08:24:05 AMPer Jordan Ranaan
https://x.com/JordanRaanan/status/1744346768664375737?s=20
https://x.com/LicensePlateGuy/status/1744348910166876388?s=20
This is great news
A year to late imho. But at least it is done!
It will be interesting to see if they get picked up by other teams.