This may be of some interest to those who value PFF grades, but they had the Giants offensive line ranked 30th worst in the NFL for 2023.
Only the Titans and Jets had a worse offensive line, link down below for those who may be interested.
Link for O line (https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/big-blue-plus/pff-issues-final-o-line-rankings-for-2023)
That's for both run blocking and pass blocking. In terms of pass blocking the Giants ranked dead last with a horrible 43.4 grade. Not to worry, the QB got a boost from the dead-last receivers (62.3 grade). /sarcasm/
We have a rookie center who struggled mightily. We do not have starting level guards who are even average. We have a failing right offensive tackle. We have many young players who also suffered injuries so I am not sure they will be at their 100% level. All I keep hearing is we can't keep investing in this group. Why not? I am not saying draft an OL player at 6, but damn, invest further in at a minimum mid-round picks, not for development but for potential starters. 85 sacks, the second worst in NFL history suggests ignoring it will only give us the same results.
Quote from: Philosophers on February 29, 2024, 10:36:07 AMWe have a rookie center who struggled mightily. We do not have starting level guards who are even average. We have a failing right offensive tackle. We have many young players who also suffered injuries so I am not sure they will be at their 100% level. All I keep hearing is we can't keep investing in this group. Why not? I am not saying draft an OL player at 6, but damn, invest further in at a minimum mid-round picks, not for development but for potential starters. 85 sacks, the second worst in NFL history suggests ignoring it will only give us the same results.
I don't want them to not invest but clearly us drafting the future on the line hasn't panned out, so at least try to address it in a different way before going back to the same well that hasn't been fruitful.
Quote from: MightyGiants on February 29, 2024, 09:27:13 AMThat's for both run blocking and pass blocking. In terms of pass blocking the Giants ranked dead last with a horrible 43.4 grade. Not to worry, the QB got a boost from the dead-last receivers (62.3 grade). /sarcasm/
Mighty,
Thanks so much for sharing and contributing those stats.
Your comments also made me laugh when you incorporated the pass blocking grade and reciever grade as well.
This makes sense, as outside of the very first drive against Dallas, DJ never had A.Thomas as his left tackle.
We combine that with the first three out of four interceptions hitting Waller and Barkley right in the hands, but they popped the balls up to be intercepted, which contributed to their reciever grade being so horrendous.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 29, 2024, 11:18:40 AMI don't want them to not invest but clearly us drafting the future on the line hasn't panned out, so at least try to address it in a different way before going back to the same well that hasn't been fruitful.
They need to evaluate why they fail so often with OL prospect evals. Clearly something is wrong with how they do it. They can't be afraid to continue trying but solve the eval problem first.
I prefer it be stated 30th best.
/sarcasm/
Quote from: Leek21 on February 29, 2024, 03:49:21 PMI prefer it be stated 30th best.
/sarcasm/
Methinks you have it backwards.
When he says "30th worst," that really means "Third best." It's a kind of double negative, so either it's "30th best" or just leave it at the conventional "30th overall."
Class dismissed. Now back to the discussion at hand. New Offensive Line Coach, Carmen Bricillo, has his hands full in trying to solve an issue a full decade and change without the proper attention it truly deserves. Working with Daboll and Kafka, to understand the blocking schemes needed to succeed with the kind of offense the Giants want to employ, would be a good place to start. Next, evaluate the players he has and offer his assessment to Daboll and Schoen on what his needs and wants are. The next step is to acquire as many of those needs and wants and turn Bricillo loose to "Fix the Damn Line," once and for all!!! Schoen and Daboll have to make this one of the top three priorities going into free agency and the draft, plain and simple.
Perhaps then, they'll have a chance to turn things around and make one of their goals for 2024 to be the "30th worst" offense.
Peace!
Quote from: sxdxca38 on February 29, 2024, 09:20:47 AMThis may be of some interest to those who value PFF grades, but they had the Giants offensive line ranked 30th worst in the NFL for 2023.
Only the Titans and Jets had a worse offensive line, link down below for those who may be interested.
Link for O line (https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/big-blue-plus/pff-issues-final-o-line-rankings-for-2023)
sx: Even if you don't give a darn about PFF, it's clear to anyone who watched the team that PFF's ranking of the Giants' offensive line at 30 out of 32 is "pretty close." Bob
Quote from: sxdxca38 on February 29, 2024, 09:20:47 AMThis may be of some interest to those who value PFF grades, but they had the Giants offensive line ranked 30th worst in the NFL for 2023.
Only the Titans and Jets had a worse offensive line, link down below for those who may be interested.
Link for O line (https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/big-blue-plus/pff-issues-final-o-line-rankings-for-2023)
Watching the games, no, no line was worse than ours. By a country mile.
Quote from: Bob In PA on February 29, 2024, 10:46:47 PMsx: Even if you don't give a darn about PFF, it's clear to anyone who watched the team that PFF's ranking of the Giants' offensive line at 30 out of 32 is "pretty close." Bob
Hi Bob,
This is so true
Quote from: AYM on March 01, 2024, 06:50:32 AMWatching the games, no, no line was worse than ours. By a country mile.
Hi,
Yes, I agree
The line was undoubtedly very poor last year. It was interesting and somewhat instructive though to see how each of our three QBs handled playing behind it.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 01, 2024, 08:41:16 AMThe line was undoubtedly very poor last year. It was interesting and somewhat instructive though to see how each of our three QBs handled playing behind it.
Do you believe that out of the three evaluations, one or two can have an adverse or a positive effect on the grade of the other? For example, we all know that good Oline play can enhance the effectiveness and therefore the grade of the QB. Can the QB have an effect on the Receiver's play and grade? Can a QB improve or be detrimental to the grade/ranking of an Offensive Line? For example, getting rid of the ball quickly in blitz situations, sliding protections, identifying the hot read, pump, and head fakes, timing of throws, and anticipation.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 01, 2024, 08:41:16 AMThe line was undoubtedly very poor last year. It was interesting and somewhat instructive though to see how each of our three QBs handled playing behind it.
Did the line and receivers improve throughout the season? Did the return of AT greatly help the O-line?
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 01, 2024, 08:41:16 AMThe line was undoubtedly very poor last year. It was interesting and somewhat instructive though to see how each of our three QBs handled playing behind it.
I think there is some merit to what you have stated, as I do feel you usually present a balanced approach.
I would just add that at the end of the year the Giants played Philadelphia twice, and they give up over 25 ppg, and had one of the worst defenses.
Also Tyrod and Devito were able to feast off of Washington twice as well.
Whereas DJ went up against San Fran and Dallas, two top 5 defenses who give up less that 18.5 ppg, in his first 5 games before getting injured.
So I do think who you play against must be factored into how the qbs perform, because DJ over the years usually has a field day against Washington.
Quote from: sxdxca38 on March 01, 2024, 01:10:20 PMI think there is some merit to what you have stated, as I do feel you usually present a balanced approach.
I would just add that at the end of the year the Giants played Philadelphia twice, and they give up over 25 ppg, and had one of the worst defenses.
Also Tyrod and Devito were able to feast off of Washington twice as well.
Whereas DJ went up against San Fran and Dallas, two top 5 defenses who give up less that 18.5 ppg, in his first 5 games before getting injured.
So I do think who you play against must be factored into how the qbs perform, because DJ over the years usually has a field day against Washington.
I fully agree that Jones faced tougher defenses than the other two. Even taking that into account though and adjusting for it, if I were a big believer in Jones' abilities I would not feel good at all about how he looked this season relative to his teammates who play the same position on the same team. As I said earlier, given he earns many multiples more than the others and occupies a dramatically bigger portion of the salary cap, it should not require parsing of opponents and squinting of one's eyes to try to explain the relative outcomes. Jones should have been the clearly much better player, without question or debate. And he simply was not.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 01, 2024, 01:27:52 PMI fully agree that Jones faced tougher defenses than the other two. Even taking that into account though and adjusting for it, if I were a big believer in Jones' abilities I would not feel good at all about how he looked this season relative to his teammates who play the same position on the same team. As I said earlier, given he earns many multiples more than the others and occupies a dramatically bigger portion of the salary cap, it should not require parsing of opponents and squinting of one's eyes to try to explain the relative outcomes. Jones should have been the clearly much better player, without question or debate. And he simply was not.
I would have to acquiesce and agree with you, especially after seeing Tyrod perform who I thought played relatively well, considering he makes a fraction of what DJ pulls in.
Quote from: sxdxca38 on March 01, 2024, 03:13:51 PMI would have to acquiesce and agree with you, especially after seeing Tyrod perform who I thought played relatively well, considering he makes a fraction of what DJ pulls in.
I respect and appreciate your intellectual honesty.
What I would say in response is that it was, to be fair, just one season. And it was only a segment of a season. And the matchups Jones faced were indeed tougher overall than what the others faced. I don't think Jones is nearly as bad as he played in 2023. I'm just personally not a believer that he's ever going to be very good. And even if that last statement of mine is up for debate, his obvious proneness for very serious injuries is not.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 01, 2024, 05:45:02 PMI respect and appreciate your intellectual honesty.
What I would say in response is that it was, to be fair, just one season. And it was only a segment of a season. And the matchups Jones faced were indeed tougher overall than what the others faced. I don't think Jones is nearly as bad as he played in 2023. I'm just personally not a believer that he's ever going to be very good. And even if that last statement of mine is up for debate, his obvious proneness for very serious injuries is not.
Yes, I would concur, that no matter how anyone feels about DJ, I think we all can agree that the injuries he's had are more than a bit concerning moving forward.
It's hard to have any faith that we can draft a decent OL. Other than Thomas, we seem to suck at picking talent. Peart, Lemieux, Ezeudu and Neal (7th overall, no less!) come to mind. And now I'm worried about Schmitz! To say he "struggled" is an understatement. Somehow, he hasn't been put under the same microscope as Neal but he's just as big a concern.
That said....fck it, draft Alt at 6, try Neal inside, hope Schmitz improves and for the love of God, sign a few competent Free Agent OLs, guys with tape, guys who you KNOW can play. Then hope this new OL coach knows wtf he's doing.
Quote from: Gman329 on March 02, 2024, 08:46:24 AMIt's hard to have any faith that we can draft a decent OL. Other than Thomas, we seem to suck at picking talent. Peart, Lemieux, Ezeudu and Neal (7th overall, no less!) come to mind. And now I'm worried about Schmitz! To say he "struggled" is an understatement. Somehow, he hasn't been put under the same microscope as Neal but he's just as big a concern.
That said....fck it, draft Alt at 6, try Neal inside, hope Schmitz improves and for the love of God, sign a few competent Free Agent OLs, guys with tape, guys who you KNOW can play. Then hope this new OL coach knows wtf he's doing.
To make it worse, it's rumored our brain trust didn't even pick Thomas - Thomas was picked because Jason Garrett lobbied hard for him.
I am concerned about how badly JMS holds up during a rush. Is it strength or bad technique because he gets driven back and turned?
Would you draft the center our of West Virginia who is god like strong and move JMS to Guard or draft him to play guard and help JMS?
I don't want to use any pick inside the first four rounds on a center. We simply have too many other needs. We took the top rated center in the draft last year. He had a rough year in 2023 but so did the whole O line, and we had an incompetent O line coach. I'd rather see how he does this year before panicking and drafting another one at the expense of addressing a major need area. If he is bad again this year, then it's a different story in the 2025 offseason. As far as this draft, if there is a developmental center in rounds 5-7 that we like I have no problem taking one in that range.