salary cap.
We just made Burns the 2nd highest paid pass rusher in league.. the assumption is we will also pay Kayvon. We are also paying Dex and Thomas massive amounts of cash. It is virtually impossible to sign Kayvo given Jones's contract unless we cut him.
What is the best contract in all of sports? The rookie QB contract.
The Burns trade solidifies we are not in rebuild mode, but going for the playoffs as soon as next year. I expect us to go QB round 1 by trading our 2nd and future 2nd and skill position players rest of draft.
Kayvon is entering year 3. They have him under contract through 2026 if they want.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 11, 2024, 09:07:26 PMKayvon is entering year 3. They have him under contract through 2026 if they want.
in theory then that makes it impossible for them to sign him with Jones taking up so much cap space (and now Burns). Jones is gone after this Burns move, not sure why more people aren't getting that still
Quote from: EliWasrobbed on March 11, 2024, 08:20:26 PMsalary cap.
We just made Burns the 2nd highest paid pass rusher in league.. the assumption is we will also pay Kayvon. We are also paying Dex and Thomas massive amounts of cash. It is virtually impossible to sign Kayvo given Jones's contract unless we cut him.
What is the best contract in all of sports? The rookie QB contract.
The Burns trade solidifies we are not in rebuild mode, but going for the playoffs as soon as next year. I expect us to go QB round 1 by trading our 2nd and future 2nd and skill position players rest of draft.
If you say we are not in a rebuilding moded and going for the playoffs , then drafting a rookie QB is not the answer . Getting a number 1 WR and/or drafting a stud OL would be the answer
Quote from: EliWasrobbed on March 11, 2024, 11:30:36 PMin theory then that makes it impossible for them to sign him with Jones taking up so much cap space (and now Burns). Jones is gone after this Burns move, not sure why more people aren't getting that still
you dont have to sign him for 3 years. We dont even know the cap hits dfir Burns contract or what the cap will look like in 2026. Further, the first year or two of a contract are generally pretty low if it has certain types of guarantees. So big hits on a Kayvon 2md contract would be in 2028. I think it's a little too far out there to consider.
Further, I dont see them keeping 3 DL on big deals in the future regardless. Someone will be gone by that time.
I doubt Jones is around after next year.
Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on March 12, 2024, 03:37:31 AMIf you say we are not in a rebuilding moded and going for the playoffs , then drafting a rookie QB is not the answer . Getting a number 1 WR and/or drafting a stud OL would be the answer
you could give Jones Tyreek Hill, we will still not do anything with him as our QB.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 12, 2024, 06:01:11 AMyou dont have to sign him for 3 years. We dont even know the cap hits dfir Burns contract or what the cap will look like in 2026. Further, the first year or two of a contract are generally pretty low if it has certain types of guarantees. So big hits on a Kayvon 2md contract would be in 2028. I think it's a little too far out there to consider.
Further, I dont see them keeping 3 DL on big deals in the future regardless. Someone will be gone by that time.
I doubt Jones is around after next year.
Kayvon isn't taking any 2 year deal no matter how much money it is
Disagree. kayvon wont get paid until the jones contract is easily disregarded. he just finished his second year. hes not an all pro yet. at best, its 2 years until he gets a new deal.
Quote from: B1GBLUE on March 12, 2024, 07:59:45 AMDisagree. kayvon wont get paid until the jones contract is easily disregarded. he just finished his second year. hes not an all pro yet. at best, its 2 years until he gets a new deal.
And then they have the 5th year option then the tag.
If he keeps putting up 11.5 sack seasons, he's not going anywhere nor being signed anytime soon.
Quote from: EliWasrobbed on March 12, 2024, 07:48:01 AMKayvon isn't taking any 2 year deal no matter how much money it is
I never said anything about a two year deal.
Quote from: EliWasrobbed on March 11, 2024, 11:30:36 PMin theory then that makes it impossible for them to sign him with Jones taking up so much cap space (and now Burns). Jones is gone after this Burns move, not sure why more people aren't getting that still
What in the world are you talking about? Jones is almost surely gone after this year and they don't have to negotiate with Thibs until 2026, 2027 if they exercise his fifth year option.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on March 12, 2024, 12:04:30 PMWhat in the world are you talking about? Jones is almost surely gone after this year and they don't have to negotiate with Thibs until 2026, 2027 if they exercise his fifth year option.
We say that, but watch him have a big year and then next February the arguments about him staying or going will be epic.
@Eliwas.... how was Eli robbed?
Also don't mind the banter. Some people just don't like to be wrong that is all. Jones stinks. Others want you to a Gaints fan "their way". And if you are not then you are not a true fan. Like :what: . If I know a player stink -- why do I want him on my team?
Aside from the silly notion that anything in this or any other Draft is "guaranteed", the fact that they now have signed Drew Lock, albeit on a 1 year, $5 million deal, makes me think it's even less likely that they will draft a QB in Round 1.
Cheers!
Quote from: Painter on March 12, 2024, 03:45:59 PMAside from the silly notion that anything in this or any other Draft is "guaranteed", the fact that they now have signed Drew Lock, albeit on a 1 year, $5 million deal, makes me think it's even less likely that they will draft a QB in Round 1.
Cheers!
I'm the opposite spectrum. I think a QB is now more in play and Jones will sit the entire year or possibly be a post June 1st cut.
Quote from: JT39 on March 12, 2024, 04:07:18 PMI'm the opposite spectrum. I think a QB is now more in play and Jones will sit the entire year or possibly be a post June 1st cut.
If Schoen and company are smart, yes, I think you're right. But the Giants haven't made a lot of smart moves over the last decade or so. So who knows what they have planned.
The Giants can wait until 2025 or 2026 to get out of QB hell. But can we?
How is everyone do certain they know what the Giants will do without knowing who will be available when the Giants pick at 6 if they end up at 6?
As an aside, does anyone else think that theres an awful lot of trolling going on with respect to the Jones threads? I've come to the conclusion that alot of whats being said in threads like this are designed to rile up fans
Quote from: katkavage on March 12, 2024, 05:02:35 PMThe Giants can wait until 2025 or 2026 to get out of QB hell. But can we?
I walked away from my seat licenses after 2019 and I haven't looked back. I have a lot more patience not having skin in the game.
Quote from: katkavage on March 12, 2024, 05:02:35 PMThe Giants can wait until 2025 or 2026 to get out of QB hell. But can we?
The Giants can, but can Daboll and Schoen wait?
I wonder if the Dabs/Schoen think they can use DJ as a means to save their jobs if they dont draft a QB and instead build the offense around DJ. If DJ fails, they can say "you pressured us into working with him. See..."
Quote from: Philosophers on March 12, 2024, 07:38:35 PMI wonder if the Dabs/Schoen think they can use DJ as a means to save their jobs if they dont draft a QB and instead build the offense around DJ. If DJ fails, they can say "you pressured us into working with him. See..."
I think its the opposite. Draft a rookie QB and they buy themselves more time. In my opinion, both Schoen and Daboll would have to really screw up to lose their jobs this year. I think Schoen is miles better than Gettleman who got 4 years and pretty much dug the hole that Schoen is cleaning up. And comparing Daboll to McAdoo and Judge is also a no contest. We are on the track
Quote from: nb587 on March 12, 2024, 07:53:25 PMI think its the opposite. Draft a rookie QB and they buy themselves more time. In my opinion, both Schoen and Daboll would have to really screw up to lose their jobs this year. I think Schoen is miles better than Gettleman who got 4 years and pretty much dug the hole that Schoen is cleaning up. And comparing Daboll to McAdoo and Judge is also a no contest. We are on the track
There is virtually zero chance of Schoen being fired this year. I guess it's not zero, but it is less than 1%. As you rightly point out, Gettleman got four years, and he had zero success. Schoen did have the 2022 season and has frankly handled himself as an ambassador of the brand much better than Gettleman ever did.
Daboll is a different story. Coaches get less rope than GM's, generally, both on the Giants and across the league. Moreover Daboll had all this drama with Wink and murmurings from other coaches that he is a hard guy to work for. Mara couldn't have liked all that. Of course, the Wink saga may have been equally if not moreso on Wink than on Daboll (nobody here knows all the details), but the bottom line is that there has definitely been some drama with Dabes, and the Giants for the most part are a rather staid organization that doesn't like that sort of stuff.
I wouldn't say Daboll definitely has to win this year to keep his job, but his security is less than Schoen's right now.
Quote from: coggs on March 12, 2024, 01:11:22 PMWe say that, but watch him have a big year and then next February the arguments about him staying or going will be epic.
what is considered a big year for jones? 16 TD's?
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 12, 2024, 05:38:47 PMI walked away from my seat licenses after 2019 and I haven't looked back. I have a lot more patience not having skin in the game.
Funny I'm having the very same discussion with my nephew (we share our tickets). We're in for the 2024 season, my 63rd,but I seriously doubt I'll renew going forward.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 12, 2024, 08:01:52 PMThere is virtually zero chance of Schoen being fired this year. I guess it's not zero, but it is less than 1%. As you rightly point out, Gettleman got four years, and he had zero success. Schoen did have the 2022 season and has frankly handled himself as an ambassador of the brand much better than Gettleman ever did.
Daboll is a different story. Coaches get less rope than GM's, generally, both on the Giants and across the league. Moreover Daboll had all this drama with Wink and murmurings from other coaches that he is a hard guy to work for. Mara couldn't have liked all that. Of course, the Wink saga may have been equally if not moreso on Wink than on Daboll (nobody here knows all the details), but the bottom line is that there has definitely been some drama with Dabes, and the Giants for the most part are a rather staid organization that doesn't like that sort of stuff.
I wouldn't say Daboll definitely has to win this year to keep his job, but his security is less than Schoen's right now.
If we win 3 or 4 games this season BOTH of them are gone. This is under assumption Burns underperforms and ew don't take a QB in the draft
Quote from: EliWasrobbed on March 12, 2024, 10:42:16 PMIf we win 3 or 4 games this season BOTH of them are gone. This is under assumption Burns underperforms and ew don't take a QB in the draft
If we win three or four games, I will agree that Daboll will be gone. Not so sure about Schoen. I don't think so myself. GMs don't get fired for two bad seasons. Especially on this franchise. Gettleman had four before he was fired. And he seemed to be fired somewhat reluctantly by Mara and it was positioned as a retirement.
The best for all us fans and the GM too is to recognize that next year will be a struggle. Building blocks for 2025 and beyond. Unfortunately that first year, fun as it was set false expectations for the team. That's why a QB this year is a necessity.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 15, 2024, 03:29:27 PMIf we win three or four games, I will agree that Daboll will be gone. Not so sure about Schoen. I don't think so myself. GMs don't get fired for two bad seasons. Especially on this franchise. Gettleman had four before he was fired. And he seemed to be fired somewhat reluctantly by Mara and it was positioned as a retirement.
schoen has missed on nearly all his draft picks (kayvon was an easy pick) and last year flat out missed on EVERY free agent.
I personally think Daboll overachieved with the roster Schoen gave him. Obviously last year was a disaster, but even then he got production out of Tyrod and Tommy. Even with 3-4 wins IF they draft a QB I see it difficutlt to see Dabol lleaving.
But you are right regarding the historical precedent.