Big Blue Huddle

I have to confess, after I thought about it they were correct

We lack the data to understand how N.J. students might spread COVID-19 in schools, experts say

QuoteLindsay Salaj tested positive for the coronavirus in later April. Her daughter, Vienne, also had a fever, but her pediatrician advised against giving the 5-year-old the unpleasant nasopharyngeal test.

This is why we need this law in NJ


Police: Randolph Man Refusing To Fix Face Mask Scalds QuickChek Cashier With Hot Coffee


https://dailyvoice.com/new-jersey/morris/police-fire/police-randolph-man-refusing-to-fix-face-mask-scalds-quickchek-cashier-with-hot-coffee/792244/

Quote from: jimmyz on August 10, 2020, 04:15:13 PM
Unless performed during the commission of riotous compassion towards fellow Americans.

Speaking of Chicago.  Things are going well in the Windy City in the last couple days. 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-downtown-looting-20200810-3zwa3b7zzrc5vdyb4qjqywrjvu-story.html

This riot seems to be purely for shopping purposes as the rioters appear to have shown up with bags.  Yep...just a good ol' spontaneuous "Free $hit" riot.

Please spare us your anti-American Trump rhetoric

Pass this law along with mandatory mask laws in all states and we would start to actually beat this virus.

QuoteAnyone who assaults an employee enforcing the use of masks can now be prosecuted as aggravated battery in Illinois.
Gov. J.B. Pritzker passed a law last week that adds a penalty for assaulting a worker who's "conveying public health guidance" -- that is, telling patrons of a business to wear a mask or maintain social distancing. In Illinois, aggravated battery is usually a felony.
The law went into effect immediately.
"This provision sends the message that it's vitally important for workers to be both respected and protected while serving on the front lines," the governor's office said in a statement on the new law.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/10/us/assault-workers-mask-law-illinois-trnd/index.html

Quote from: Bob In PA on August 09, 2020, 05:04:05 PM
Rich: Do we know if European countries "count" deaths as we do?  I ask because, as you know, there are financial incentives for reporting every possible case in the US as having been caused by covid. Bob

https://www.cbs19.tv/article/news/health/verify-covid-19-reporting-and-death-certificates/501-cd4f1995-e342-4451-ae90-a814f1ace284

Quote from: Bob In PA on August 09, 2020, 04:51:18 PM
Rich: It's meaningless to look at a single day. That's why I attempted to post semi-long-term totals.  Also, different countries may count differently.

There's a big difference between dying WITH covid and dying FROM covid.  We just don't know enough (including how that particular dichotomy will be finally assessed and considered by epidemiologists). 

Things change daily. There's little to be learned by checking the score after each play in a game.  Once the pandemic has run its course, comparisons will be meaningful, and conclusions can be reached... maybe.

Bob

Bob,

1)  I pulled the data from bar charts and I can tell you it's not like the 7th was an anomaly.  That magnitudes greater death rates has been going on for some time now

2)  For the overwhelming majority of Covid deaths those two terms are interchangeable.  The numbers of patients who have Covid but die of something unrelated is very small

Quote from: MightyGiants on August 06, 2020, 09:38:41 AM
This is a picture of the first day of classes at Paulding County Georgia




The student who posted this has since been suspended by the school

and



9 Test Positive for Coronavirus at Georgia High School Where Viral Photo Showed Students Without Masks

North Paulding High School has not specified if they will be closing down after six students and three staff members tested positive for COVID-19


https://people.com/health/9-test-positive-coronavirus-georgia-high-school/

Quote from: Bob In PA on August 09, 2020, 01:19:24 PM
Rich: Two opinions in one sentence (not a problem, just an observation). As for NY, Cuomo rules the entire state. I feel bad for any gov ofa state with a HUGE city, since, as we know, dense population = bad news.  Bob

The NYC metro area had to deal with mass transit and highrise buildings and getting the virus early when there was no PPE or knowledge of the virus or even a treatment


I think there is another number you should be looking at:

Deaths on August 7 (the last day I have all the data)

Spain- 3
UK- 55
Italy- 3
Germany- 2
France- 12

Total-  77


The US-  1290


Those are the numbers that justify the article I posted

Quote from: Bob In PA on August 09, 2020, 01:09:48 PM
Thanks. My conclusion is the same.... we've done no worse or better than Europe, generally.  As for New York, they have the highest death rate among the 50 states.  Here's the rest of what I posted before.  Bob

Deaths per 100,000 population (including a few states that have been harshly criticized, which I have steadfastly refused to do):
New York - 167
Belgium - 86
UK - 70
Spain - 61
Italy - 58
Arizona - 53
United States - 48
France - 45
Florida - 34
Texas - 27
Germany - 11

Bob,

We have done worse and as time goes by it's getting to be much worse


As for NY, you have to separate out upstate from the city.

Quote from: Bob In PA on August 09, 2020, 12:18:08 PM
Rich: Europe would be better served to mind its own business, as they have done no better or worse.  Bob

Population:
United States - 330,000,000
Germany,UK, France,Italy and Spain - 325,000,000 combined

Approximate number of covid tests:
United States - 59,000,000
Euro countries listed above - 41,300,000

Approximate number of covid Deaths:
United States - 158,000
Euro group - 151,000

Deaths per 100,000 population:
UK - 70
Spain - 61
Italy - 58
United States - 48
France - 45
Germany - 11

Bob

PS. These stats are getting a bit long-in-the-tooth but they're approximations anyway (but sufficient to make my point). I have no idea if the comparison is now more or less favorable than it was at the end of June.

Sadly these numbers are outdated or off (I use World O'meter as my source)


The US is now at 50 deaths per 100,000 (and rising) rather than 48

The UK is actually 69 rather than 70 (even then I rounded up 68.6)

France is 46 rather than 45

The rest of the numbers match up

As for deaths of of these comparable groups

It now stands at

US- 165,260
Europe- 149,867


Of course as we discussed before the US population is significantly younger than the populations of the European nations you selected.    Plus, as the article points out the US situation is still dire even with better treatments, better knowledge of the disease, and more PPE.   Europe is like the NYC metro area it got hit hard and fast before we had the tools to fight back.   

If you want a good comparison, you should compare how upstate NY has weathered this virus.  That is a great comparison to many of the parts of the nation that are now dealing with Covid crisises.  They had the time and the warning that upstate NY got, the difference was in the leadership.

US tops 5 million confirmed virus cases, to Europe's alarm

ROME (AP)

This is concerning

QuoteSTURGIS, S.D.

A few thoughts about this:

1) this is the benefit of testing, even if you don't have symptoms

2) At 73, he is in a higher risk group, I hope he will be okay

3) This may seem pedantic but if you are exposed to Covid you are quarantined, if you are infected you are isolated (I am surprise this announcement got that basic wording wrong)

Quote from: Bob In PA on August 06, 2020, 01:32:34 PM
Rich: I don't know either.  I'm just saying sometimes he says stuff to divert attention or to start a fight (for whatever reason). 

I have no idea about this current statement he made.

I do know that he is well aware of the European countries, most of which have gotten their kids back to school with minimal fuss.  As for the results of what they're doing... that remains to be seen.

Bob

The difference between Europe and the US is Europe did it after getting infection rates under control while the US is trying to do it in while the pandemic is still raging in many parts of the country.

Quote from: Bob In PA on August 06, 2020, 01:19:58 PM
Rich: Close enough for me. Thanks. Trump's statement is way more wrong than right. I do still believe, though, he intentionally (at times) forces them to "censor" him (his chief purpose for doing that... I'm not sure). Bob

In my opinion when you are dealing with a public health crisis deliberately saying something that is dangerously incorrect is worse than accidentally saying it.  Considering Trump has many of his followers trained to only believe Trump and no one else, his comments have the potential to cause great harm or death.  If he did it to score political points, I just don't know he lives with himself. 

That said, I believe it's more likely that Trump is repeated what he believed and may have been told.   I could see a scenario where someone was explaining the lower Covid rates in children and Trump saying, "wow, it's like they are practically immune" and the expert agreeing with that claim (who wants to correct the President, and what you say in a briefing is distinctly different than what you say in public as an official/authority.   

Quote from: Bob In PA on August 06, 2020, 12:52:30 PM
Rich: This says children have fewer coronavirus receptors in their noses.     https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-05-21-20-intl/h_045ff0a5390267f878680c220f539695

This offers reasons why kids are generally less likely to get infected, and less likely to spread it to others.  https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/07/10/coronavirus-why-kids-arent-the-germbags-and-grownups-are/

Yet, "big tech" pulled down Trump's tweet because it supposedly was "in violation of Twitter rules against misinformation"  (query: is what Trump said REALLY misinformation?).  What's the deal?

Bob

There is a cut off around 9 or 10 years of age.  Below that threshold children are less prone to be infected or spread the infection.    Above that age they are pretty much like adults when it comes to spreading the virus, but with the younger age meaning their odds of serious complications or death being much lower. 


As for Trump's comments, he suggested that young children are "practically immune" according to the reports I heard (I did not hear comments first hand).   If he said that, it would be incorrect and dangerous.