Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 09, 2024, 03:25:30 PMWhy can't we ever have a full on rebuild.

My gut is because the nature of the NFL now is so short-term / GMs and coaches have to win quickly and patience is thinner than I can ever remember.  Because of this I feel like there is a huge disincentive to actually tearing things down to the studs and starting fresh.

I dunno this would make me a bit nervous...  I'm guessing Hoge gets more play now because of how well he called Manziel being a bust:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZXaEmS8zaQ .  He was also right on CJ Stroud last year:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLrHCw6RjcM . 

I'll also add- I'm not sure it does much good to bring guys like Kelce, Gates, or Gronk into this particular conversation.  In that one sentence you are listing 3 of the top 4 pass-catching TEs of ALL TIME (at least IMO- those 3 + Tony G).  I mean, of course it would be nice to get a HALL OF FAME tight end in rounds 2-3+. 

Here's the funny thing though- not a single TE drafted in the first round in the last 24 years has come even close to those players:  https://thefalconswire.usatoday.com/gallery/nfl-draft-falcons-tight-end-kyle-pitts-hayden-hurst-atlanta/ . 

So yeah, hard pass for me on any tight end at 6, in the top 15, or maybe even all the way through round 1. 

Quote from: PSUBeirut on April 07, 2024, 01:31:16 PMInteresting!  So are these the same thoughts you had about Saquon being selected #2 overall?  Or do you just feel differently about the TE position than you do RB?

For me personally, a TE at 6, no matter the prospect, is a waste.  At least until one of these uber athletic, generational TE prospects actually produces like that on the field. 

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 07, 2024, 02:23:12 PMActually yeah, I do feel differently about TE than I do RB. First, TE is a more expensive position than RB in terms of average salary. It is not as expensive as receiver, which I very clearly alluded to in my post, but it is pricier than RB. Secondly, the league is a passing league, so if you do happen to have a weapon like Gronk, Kelce, Gates etc it has a greater impact on an offense in today's NFL than having a Derrick Henry or Jonathan Taylor does.

I understand TE is not as valuable a position as receiver, QB, OT, and CB. I have also made it clear (twice now) that I am not advocating for taking Bowers. Nor do I think the Giants will. I was simply highlighting the low probability scenario where they have him graded as a much better prospect than the other options they're considering with that pick. My own personal opinion is that he is not a superior prospect to the big three receivers, but unlike some here who clearly believe they are better talent evaluators than NFL front offices, I am happy to defer to Schoen and his team on this matter.

Would I be happy with the pick if they took him? Since I am hoping we somehow get a QB the front office likes, and since I like all three of these receivers quite a bit as well as Joe Alt, probably not, but I'll make up my mind more firmly about that once I have watched him play for a year or two.

All good.  I respect that.  Just found it interesting that almost the exact same (opposite) verbiage was used by folks who were 100% against taking a RB that high - ie, our GM (and the vast majority of NFL folks, draftniks, etc.) considered Barkley to be the top or at least top 3 overall prospect in that draft, regardless of position.  So when you say "I would not want them to hold back and go with the inferior prospect in this case based purely on position." it piqued my interest- as many folks who didn't want Saquon at #2 used the opposite of this logic in their arguments- ie, that the GM SHOULD draft an inferior prospect on their board solely based on position. 

Me, personally- I don't think either a TE --OR-- a RB should ever be taken that high- And I actually feel more strongly on the TE piece than the RB- as long as the RB is a multi-dimensional threat....because they're gonna touch the ball a whole lot more than a TE ever would.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on April 07, 2024, 07:31:12 PMIt's interesting that the only TE they've had in for a visit is Theo Johnson (that I've seen listed anyway). A big and fast traditional type TE who show exceptional athleticism at the combine

I believe Theo will be a better pro than he was a college player.  IMO he was misused in the offense last year and should have been a more-featured weapon.  I could see him being one of those mid-round gems for someone.  He's got a lot of great tools and good intangibles as well.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 07, 2024, 01:04:21 PMNone of the above examples mean Bowers will be a bad pick.

To be clear, I'm not advocating taking Bowers. Based on my own observations and sense of value, I would prefer any of the receivers over him. What I am not on board with is dismissing the idea of picking him completely out of hand, based purely on his being a TE and the others being receivers. If Schoen and his scouts rated Bowers as a distinctly better prospect than the WRs available when they pick, and they aren't going with a different position, then I would not want them to hold back and go with the inferior prospect in this case based purely on position. That is all.

Interesting!  So are these the same thoughts you had about Saquon being selected #2 overall?  Or do you just feel differently about the TE position than you do RB?

For me personally, a TE at 6, no matter the prospect, is a waste.  At least until one of these uber athletic, generational TE prospects actually produces like that on the field. 

Terrible.  Awful.  With the talent that is available at 6, guaranteed- that matches up with critical team needs - picking a TE would be ridiculous.   

What a cool story.  It would be amazing if things worked out for the young man. 

Traded down with Cinci and stockpiled...

Don't discount both Dawson Knox and Dalton Kincaid at TE position- both really good receiving threats.  James Cook out of the backfield is also a weapon.  I'm of the mindset that Josh is gonna be fine as long as they add 1 or 2 more young WRs to the mix- in fact if they wind up with one of the better WRs in the draft I wouldn't be shocked if they win OROY- the situation would certainly be ripe in Buffalo for it (Diggs takes a TON of targets in that offense- even if he wasn't efficient with them at all down the stretch).

Take a look at his stats as last year went along and tell me if this wasn't a GREAT move by the Bills. 

Diggs disappeared in a major way down the stretch last year.  Not sure if it was age, injury, he was in a bad headspace or what- but he was not the same player in the 2nd half of the season last year.  This move doesn't surprise me too much.  Bills now major players at the WR position in the draft (I'm sure this was also part of the calculus for them as the WR spot is STACKED in this draft, top to bottom IMO).

Brock Bowers at 6 would be a throw-the-remote pick for me.  With the kind of QB and WR talent that is guaranteed to be sitting there, picking a TE in that spot would be unthinkable for this team.

For the Penn State guys, I agreed with his takes on both Adisa Isaac and Chop Robinson.  Isaac, IMO, has a ton of upside potential- very high motor, still raw, really good athlete.  I think he'll make an impact as a rotational pass rusher right off the bat.  Cosell calls Chop the best edge in the draft and I agree.  PSU is gonna miss both of those guys next year (although they just moved a guy to DE that I like better than both these guys when he comes out- Abdul Carter...wears the same "honored" number at PSU as Micah Parsons and Lavar Arrington and may be next in line, IMO- keep an eye out on him this coming year). 

I went with other- I think Kayvon has a chance to break out with a legit edge on the other side taking a lot of attention off of him and of course Dex in the middle to do the same.  More than anything, I'm hoping that Burns can mentor the young man and show him some tips to take his pass rush game to the next level.