- Daniel Jones - The 5th most sacked QB in the NFL

[Philosophers]

To be a downfield thrower you have to have 100% trust in OL pass blocking where you are not even thinking about it, an immediate eye to spot downfield WRs, vision of the window to throw it and confidence to make the throw.

Does DJ have these?

[DaveBrown74]

Actually, I was pretty ready to say goodbye to Jones prior to this season, but he has shown me some grit, mental toughness, and ability to respond to coaching that I haven't really seen in him before.  The team recognizes him as the leader, and there's something to be said for that. This isn't Madden where you can just plug and unplug guys randomly and expect them to form a cohesive unit.  I think some folks just can't but associate him with Gettleman and the Gettleman stink will never clear until Jones is gone and maybe even Barkley too. It is not based in objective logic.

Assessing Jones based on the actual hard facts on the ground has nothing to do with associating him with a former GM. If that were the case, people wouldn't be giving players like Andrew Thomas and Dexter Lawrence the props that they have rightly been getting. And that's not the case at all.

Some fans prefer to assess players objectively and holistically and look at all the available facts and data. Others prefer to see things only one way, and when anything goes wrong to cast the blame elsewhere. Why the first group gets under the second group's skin is a mystery to me, but it is what it is.

[Slugsy-Narrows]

To be a downfield thrower you have to have 100% trust in OL pass blocking where you are not even thinking about it, an immediate eye to spot downfield WRs, vision of the window to throw it and confidence to make the throw.

Does DJ have these?

Also have to have trust your WR will fight for the ball in tight windows.

We have seen first hand Slay watch the defender just take the ball when he had a chance to defend it.

If DJ doesn't trust his WRs can win those battles and throws it also makes sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Painter]

So, what if anything relevant to DJ's future as Giants QB do we feel is indicative in the numbers being quoted. Is someone going to suggest that's not what this is all about?

Of course, I suppose that with 9 games yet to be played, we might be figuring that there still time to coach him up in ways that haven't yet occurred to Daboll and Kafka. That is, of course, if we think he's even worth the bother.

Cheers!

[Jclayton92]

To be a downfield thrower you have to have 100% trust in OL pass blocking where you are not even thinking about it, an immediate eye to spot downfield WRs, vision of the window to throw it and confidence to make the throw.

Does DJ have these?

great points, I think he's missing the last 2 for sure at one point he was good a deep balls but that has regressed significantly to where I don't know that he's even eyeing targets down the field vertically.

[sxdxca38]

There are many aspects to this. One of the most important is the Giants are ALWAYS playing from behind.

Once they start getting ahead in games, I think some of the excessive sack rate will fade away.

That probably won't happen until next year, because they don't have WR's who can threaten defenses. Saquon on the ground is the only potential threat. For the rest of this season, teams will dare the Giants to throw behind the defense & IMO it will work at least 75% of the games.

Bob

Bob thank you for your kind response, it is appreciated

[sxdxca38]

Jones has a tendency to panic in the pocket and step up into sacks a lot especially when playing from behind.

Then line held up well in Seattle yet Jones was sacked 5 times... Because he refuses to go downfield and panics. In the games he's played bad in it compounds because he doesn't want to throw an interception and instead will take the sack.

The line was bad vs the Cowboys as everyone's line has been versus them but every game that we've been behind In and Jones has struggled in he takes those unnecessary sacks. It was really evident in the Carolina and Tennessee games.

Tennessee QBR 23.2 sack 5
Carolina QBR 34.8  sack 3
Cowboys  QBR 48.2  Sack 5
Seattle  QBR 25.1 sack 5

Yes the line was a work in progress in the beginning of the season but Jones hasn't helped things either.

Okay I appreciate your response here, your comments were civil and respectful, and I appreciate that very much. Thanks for your contribution.

[sxdxca38]

and this and this...

Hi Ed, thank you for your contributions especially your images, but to help me to fully understand the data that you provided, can you please explain what the 2.87 number means compared to the 3.59 number with regards to DJ?

It would be much appreciated,
Thanks

[Ed Vette]

Hi Ed, thank you for your contributions especially your images, but to help me to fully understand the data that you provided, can you please explain what the 2.87 number means compared to the 3.59 number with regards to DJ?

It would be much appreciated,
Thanks

Just pay attention to Jones being the number one QB with the highest average time to throw and how high he is in average time to sack. It demonstrates how much time he takes and has before throwing and getting sacked. He holds the ball too long.

[Ed Vette]

Just pay attention to Jones being the number one QB with the highest average time to throw and how high he is in average time to sack. It demonstrates how much time he takes and has before throwing and getting sacked. He holds the ball too long.

And to answer the next question, if nobody is open, throw it away instead of taking the sack.

[nb587]

I think when  it comes to evaluating QBs, the most indicator, whether it's Fairborn it, is does he win games?  And, a subset of that is, can he come from behind?  This year, Jones is doing a pretty fair job.

Second, the association with Gettleman, as far as I'm concerned, isn't tha5nhe drafted him.  It's that he drafted him with the 6th pick.I felt from the start that whether Jones turns out to be a good QB as some think or a backup as others do, the bottom line is that Jones was way overdrafted.  Count me in with those who believe that Jones, if he stays healthy (a big if), can win with the right circumstances around him (including a good defense) but he would have been available in the 2nd round, maybe even later.

Third, the one thing that baffles me on a site like this is that even those who don't think Jones is even adequate are all Giants fans and rooting for him because we live and breath Giants.  It's not an us against them; it's all us. Unless someone is trolling, we're all pulling for Jones regardless of how,we think of his abilities as a QB.

[Ed Vette]

I think when  it comes to evaluating QBs, the most indicator, whether it's Fairborn it, is does he win games?  And, a subset of that is, can he come from behind?  This year, Jones is doing a pretty fair job.

Second, the association with Gettleman, as far as I'm concerned, isn't tha5nhe drafted him.  It's that he drafted him with the 6th pick.I felt from the start that whether Jones turns out to be a good QB as some think or a backup as others do, the bottom line is that Jones was way overdrafted.  Count me in with those who believe that Jones, if he stays healthy (a big if), can win with the right circumstances around him (including a good defense) but he would have been available in the 2nd round, maybe even later.

Third, the one thing that baffles me on a site like this is that even those who don't think Jones is even adequate are all Giants fans and rooting for him because we live and breath Giants.  It's not an us against them; it's all us. Unless someone is trolling, we're all pulling for Jones regardless of how,we think of his abilities as a QB.

Off topic. This is a discussion about sacks and how they compare to the rest of the QB's in the league and how it affects his stats.

[todge]

I think when  it comes to evaluating QBs, the most indicator, whether it's Fairborn it, is does he win games?  And, a subset of that is, can he come from behind?  This year, Jones is doing a pretty fair job.

Second, the association with Gettleman, as far as I'm concerned, isn't tha5nhe drafted him.  It's that he drafted him with the 6th pick.I felt from the start that whether Jones turns out to be a good QB as some think or a backup as others do, the bottom line is that Jones was way overdrafted.  Count me in with those who believe that Jones, if he stays healthy (a big if), can win with the right circumstances around him (including a good defense) but he would have been available in the 2nd round, maybe even later.

Third, the one thing that baffles me on a site like this is that even those who don't think Jones is even adequate are all Giants fans and rooting for him because we live and breath Giants.  It's not an us against them; it's all us. Unless someone is trolling, we're all pulling for Jones regardless of how,we think of his abilities as a QB.

No Jones would not have been
available in the 2nd Round or even later. I find it hard to believe this myth is still sitting around years later.

There were five high Profile people including Mel Kiper himself who said that Jones was going in the top 10. Phil Simms on the Boomer Esiason show, said he knew for a fact four teams who were going to take DJ before 10. When Boomer asked who they were, Phil said he would tell him off air.

Kiper always stated that DJ was highly regarded by scouts because of his superlative measurables. But he was disliked by fans and media who pay more attention to production than anything else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GMenRF]

Just pay attention to Jones being the number one QB with the highest average time to throw and how high he is in average time to sack. It demonstrates how much time he takes and has before throwing and getting sacked. He holds the ball too long.

It's both a trust issue and being indecisive.  Like what was mentioned in the video posted earlier, could DJ have taken a shot down the field with Wandale?  Many would argue he should have. 

However considering down and distance 3rd and long at Midfield, do you take the sure first down with Slayton or gamble for the marbles with Wandale.  Hard to argue he made a "bad" decision with going with Slayton.

Perhaps this something that the staff should look at.  Taking some shots down the field on early downs so DJ is not so "boxed" in his decision making in taking the shorter throw just to keep the chains moving.

Also we also have to consider, is this the product of what Judge and Garrett has ingrained in DJ of not taking risks down the field.  Because if you look at his rookie tape he was fine taking shots down the field with Slayton and Tate.  Just goes to show how bad they hurt DJs development.

[AZGiantFan]

To be a downfield thrower you have to have 100% trust in OL pass blocking where you are not even thinking about it, an immediate eye to spot downfield WRs, vision of the window to throw it and confidence to make the throw.

Does DJ have these?

Possibly an open receivers would help as well.