- Daniel Jones - A possible top ten QB? -

[MightyGiants]

Because every top QB that end the season last year the Burrows, Herbert's, Allen's, mahomes all finished with 4500 30 and 10... so why wouldn't I?

How did you determine these QBs to be the "top QB"?  I may be missing something but it sounds like circular reasoning.

[Jclayton92]

True, I have heard QBs like Phil Simms talk about how much harder it is to find a rhythm and get a feel for the game if you don't throw enough passes

You trying to compare Herbert and Jones is wild Rich.

[MightyGiants]

You trying to compare Herbert and Jones is wild Rich.

The numbers say differently

[AP44]

I dont really want to compare Herbert and Jones but I think Herbert has HOF potential and is just dealing with some of the bad luck Jones has for a lot of his career.

I think the biggest thing holding Herbert back is not the injuries to his entire team, but his HC. I think Staley is one of the worst coaches in the NFL.

[Jclayton92]

How did you determine these QBs to be the "top QB"?  I may be missing something but it sounds like circular reasoning.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nfl.com/_amp/nfl-qb-index-ranking-all-62-starting-qbs-of-the-2021-nfl-season

Virtually every power ranking at the end of 2021 Rich. Go take a look, are you saying Burrow, Allen, Herbert, and Mahomes didn't have great seasons last year?

[Ed Vette]

Yup and Cousins also has Justin Jefferson who is playing out of his mind and could be the #1 WR in the entire NFL at this point. They have Thielen who is a very solid #2 and added Hockenson.

What DJ is doing relative to the WR group around him is absolutely impressive. Yes Its hard to move him in that group bc we cant see the big numbers without first having the bonafide WRs.

Daboll and Kafka are holding him back for a reason. If it's because of the Receiver group then then should theoretically open it up for him with another top weapon. The thing is, right now Slayton is playing like a bona fide number one and Robinson is that number two. Yet they still hold him back. I think that although Daboll said he didn't want to restrict Jones he has because he knows they can't afford turnovers. You can't keep blaming Garrett when we see a repeat of last season and an addition of a healthy Barkley.

Schoen said he was in negotiations before the trade deadline but I wonder if it's Odell's injury history or him thinking he would have an impact this year in this offense.

We can only speculate.

[MightyGiants]

I dont really want to compare Herbert and Jones but I think Herbert has HOF potential and is just dealing with some of the bad luck Jones has for a lot of his career.

I think the biggest thing holding Herbert back is not the injuries to his entire team, but his HC. I think Staley is one of the worst coaches in the NFL.

Dale,

I agree that coaching is important to a QB's production (as is protection and receiving weapons).  I also agree that Staley is not exactly an elite coach.  Interesting bit of trivia, one of the finalists (and many thought would be the winner) was none other than Brian Daboll.  I am sure Herbert is less than thrilled with how that HC competition played out.

[Jclayton92]

The numbers say differently

our organization thought the best way for us to win was with 8 linemen and 17 throws and you're in here trying to bang the table for Jones as top 10. Now who's biased because you've watched a lot of football Rich. Teams that throw the ball 17 times don't have a top 10 QB.

So are Daboll and Kafka wrong because we haven't been throwing it enough? When we tried to throw it in Seattle against rookie corners Jones failed miserably and yet he throws the ball 17 times and absurd ops like this come up. His accuracy and efficiency are high because the passing plays they do give him are 1-2 read 6 yard routes.

If we had a top 10 QB we would throw it a lot more than 17 times a game. Or even more than his average of 27, we would but we don't and it isn't just because of the wrs.

[MightyGiants]

our organization thought the best way for us to win was with 8 linemen and 17 throws and you're in here trying to bang the table for Jones as top 10. Now who's biased because you've watched a lot of football Rich. Teams that throw the ball 17 times don't have a top 10 QB.

So are Daboll and Kafka wrong because we haven't been throwing it enough? When we tried to throw it in Seattle against rookie corners Jones failed miserably and yet he throws the ball 17 times and absurd ops like this come up. His accuracy and efficiency are high because the passing plays they do give him are 1-2 read 6 yard routes.

If we had a top 10 QB we would throw it a lot more than 17 times a game. Or even more than his average of 27, we would but we don't and it isn't just because of the wrs.

Jess,

Jones literally had the best QB rating of any QB this season.  So Jones did an outstanding job with the opportunities afforded him.  Why should we believe that if he was given more chances to throw (especially as they would have been in more favorable situations like first down instead of 3rd and long) he would have tanked or even just done worse?

[Blue Fire]

Daboll and Kafka are holding him back for a reason. If it's because of the Receiver group then then should theoretically open it up for him with another top weapon. The thing is, right now Slayton is playing like a bona fide number one and Robinson is that number two. Yet they still hold him back. I think that although Daboll said he didn't want to restrict Jones he has because he knows they can't afford turnovers. You can't keep blaming Garrett when we see a repeat of last season and an addition of a healthy Barkley.

Schoen said he was in negotiations before the trade deadline but I wonder if it's Odell's injury history or him thinking he would have an impact this year in this offense.

We can only speculate.

I get your view on this Ed. Just not sure I see Slayton as a bonafide #1. Sure he is playing better but he isnt anywhere on the level of the top 25- 30 WRs in the game.

Robinson is still a rookie with very little live game experience to date.

I mean do you think this WR corps is even outside of bottom 5 in the entire NFL and/or you think another QB could be doing more with so little?

DJs problems even as a rook werent the ints they were mainly ball security . Was the 24 tds in 12 games to a WR group that had barely any seperation but still was considerably better than what we have now a total aberration?

I get there is some level of speculation here but I would love to see DJ afforded the opportunity to play with any of these WRs that young QBs Tua, Lawrence, Hurts, Allen, Kyler etc have all been given. So many of these guys prior to getting the WRs looked very very ordinary too.

[Jolly Blue Giant]

I think he's top 10, but more importantly, I think he is perfect for Daboll's scheme. Daboll doesn't have much to work with in terms of receivers, and DJ does exactly what Daboll requires of him IN ORDER TO WIN GAMES. If Danny Dimes had a couple of stud receivers...there'd be no question about his worthiness to wear Giants' blue!

We have to face it that we are a no.1 (and maybe a no.2) receiver away from being a dominate team. We've spread the field horizontally with what we have to work with, but we are still challenged in spreading it vertically. After next year's draft and a few cuts/adding FAs...fans down on DJ will eat a healthy serving of crow

Right now, it's all about winning, not putting a QB on a pedestal who single-handedly gets highlight reels on ESPN. Keep in mind that Jones also gets sacked among the 5 or 6 most QBs in the NFL because the line is not yet finished. Imagine a steel wall for a line and 2 great WRs that are always ready to take it to the house. We are not a finished product and Jones is basically "Daboll on the field" and using his head rather than his arm to WIN GAMES. DJ is very athletic, but most importantly - he is one very smart QB. That's why we're winning right now...which is ultimately the object of the game, isn't it???

[uconnjack8]

I am a fan of QBR at least compared to many other QB metrics.   However,  am I to believe that Jacoby Brisset, Daniel Jones and Marcus Mariota are better QBs than Brady or Rodgers? 

No, this year they are operating more effectively within their system and what they are being asked to do.

I hate Rodgers and think its hilarious that his contract likely prevented the team from signing Adam's, but he didn't forget how to be a QB this year or lose his elite arm.

[killarich]

He's not better than Jackson, Brady, Rodgers, Garappolo, or Goff.

Top 10 Qbs last year were in the 4500 yd 30 Td 10 int range and Jones isn't coming close to that.

You really rather have Goff over Jones ?

Wow ... okay

[sxdxca38]

I am a fan of QBR at least compared to many other QB metrics.   However,  am I to believe that Jacoby Brisset, Daniel Jones and Marcus Mariota are better QBs than Brady or Rodgers? 

No, this year they are operating more effectively within their system and what they are being asked to do.

I hate Rodgers and think its hilarious that his contract likely prevented the team from signing Adam's, but he didn't forget how to be a QB this year or lose his elite arm.

Hi Uconn,

Yes if you see my original post I put Rodgers clearly above DJ, and Brady is gonna retire soon

[Blue Fire]

I think he's top 10, but more importantly, I think he is perfect for Daboll's scheme. Daboll doesn't have much to work with in terms of receivers, and DJ does exactly what Daboll requires of him IN ORDER TO WIN GAMES. If Danny Dimes had a couple of stud receivers...there'd be no question about his worthiness to wear Giants' blue!

We have to face it that we are a no.1 (and maybe a no.2) receiver away from being a dominate team. We've spread the field horizontally with what we have to work with, but we are still challenged in spreading it vertically. After next year's draft and a few cuts/adding FAs...fans down on DJ will eat a healthy serving of crow

Right now, it's all about winning, not putting a QB on a pedestal who single-handedly gets highlight reels on ESPN. Keep in mind that Jones also gets sacked among the 5 or 6 most QBs in the NFL because the line is not yet finished. Imagine a steel wall for a line and 2 great WRs that are always ready to take it to the house. We are not a finished product and Jones is basically "Daboll on the field" and using his head rather than his arm to WIN GAMES. DJ is very athletic, but most importantly - he is one very smart QB. That's why we're winning right now...which is ultimately the object of the game, isn't it???

Very well said JBG.

I don't see DJ being any different than Tua, Hurts, Kyler, Carr, Herbert when they all got a couple stud receivers added to their team. Most guys listed above saw a serious uptick when they got a stud WR. The list goes on too.

Now the X factor is a new GM and/or new coach often want to bring in THEIR guy. I worry a bit this may be the case here considering they didn't bring in the a better WR for DJ AND got rid of the mercurial but talented Toney.

Remember Mac (whether he was right or wrong is separate to the anology) but he HATED Eli. He couldn't wait to get Eli benched and behind the scenes wanted Mahomes quite badly.