Where do you rank Daniel Jones amongst the rest of the league?

[kingm56]

It saddens me that you had to clearly ignore at least one powerful point that showed what DJ did, that no other QB has done in the "history" of the game, so I'll share it again for you.

And I quote "He became the first player in NFL history to log at least 300 passing yards, 70 rushing yards, and two touchdown passes in a playoff game."

So hopefully you can see that this isn't a what if game, but it is based off a statement of fact.

I"m off to work now, peace.
 

I'm not overlooking anything; I just refuse to employ your logic of viewing a problem from 5 feet, vice considering the aggregate.  There are several average QBs who hold single game records; for example, Craig Morton holds the record for highest passing percentage in a single game; Drew Bledsoe holds multiple single game records.  Matt Schaub holds the modern day most passing yards (530 yards) in a single game.  Single games tell us very little; what matters is the aggregate. 

[True Blue]

It saddens me that you had to clearly ignore at least one powerful point that showed what DJ did, that no other QB has done in the "history" of the game, so I'll share it again for you.

And I quote "He became the first player in NFL history to log at least 300 passing yards, 70 rushing yards, and two touchdown passes in a playoff game."

So hopefully you can see that this isn't a what if game, but it is based off a statement of fact.

I"m off to work now, peace.
 

Not a what if game? You are ignoring the powerful point, that it was against the 31st ranked pass defense in the entire NFL. Throwing 300 yards against them isn't exactly a marvelous feat. Many have thrown 2 TDs before, the 70 rush yards make it an artificial stat.

How did he perform the following week, with the same supporting cast that he had this historical performance with, when against a defense that is actually competent?

[jgrangers2]

It saddens me that you had to clearly ignore at least one powerful point that showed what DJ did, that no other QB has done in the "history" of the game, so I'll share it again for you.

And I quote "He became the first player in NFL history to log at least 300 passing yards, 70 rushing yards, and two touchdown passes in a playoff game."

So hopefully you can see that this isn't a what if game, but it is based off a statement of fact.

I"m off to work now, peace.
 

The Vikings defense was awful to say the least. Everyone put up big numbers against them. Whenever the Giants played an even remotely capable defense last year, the offense looked mediocre at best.

[jimmyz]

He's average.  And the average of the votes in the poll indicates he is average.  He is perfectly average.  I believe you can put lipstick on him in the form of WRs and protection and he will look prettier.  As pretty as Jim Everett.  Will that be enough to win a SB?  It could be enough for a single run if many things come together.  It will be a herculean effort on the part of coaches and front office to bring together enough of the right pieces at the right time but it can be done and much stranger things have happened in recent Giants history.

I'm not arguing in favor of Daniel Jones but I also don't believe we are doomed to some kind of playoff purgatory.  The way things look, the Giants are keeping Jones and I have no say in anything so this might be nothing but a cope on my part, but I like Schoen enough and Daboll quite a bit to believe they'll keep the Giants in contention long enough where the right moment might cross our path.  Keeping fingers crossed.

[MightyGiants]

https://twitter.com/TheGiantsWire/status/1630651477608767494

[jgrangers2]

Excellent post. It's obviously not what many here want to hear or choose to believe, but for anyone objective there is really nothing in it that can be rationally disputed.

And this needs to go beyond just the discussion around Jones. I have a friend who wanted to trade our 1st round pick for Jalen Ramsey and his $25M cap hit. Progress isn't linear and this season very much reminded me of the Knicks season from 2 years ago so people need to temper expectations and not treat next year like you expect 10+ wins simply because we won 9 last year.

[True Blue]

https://twitter.com/TheGiantsWire/status/1630651477608767494

There is a difference between good, and great, the two are not the same.

[True Blue]

And this needs to go beyond just the discussion around Jones. I have a friend who wanted to trade our 1st round pick for Jalen Ramsey and his $25M cap hit. Progress isn't linear and this season very much reminded me of the Knicks season from 2 years ago so people need to temper expectations and not treat next year like you expect 10+ wins simply because we won 9 last year.

I would agree. Good post.

[MightyGiants]

There is a difference between good, and great, the two are not the same.

Would you say great is a blue-chipper, while good is a red-chipper?

Mike Lombardi's definition for each:

Definition of a blue-chip player

» Player demonstrates rare abilities and can create mismatches that have an obvious impact on the game
» Is a premier player in the league and a weapon on the field
» Combines competitiveness and skill to have a consistent championship-level performance
» Rates in the top five at his position in the league


Definition of a red-chip player

» Player has abilities that can create mismatches vs. most opponents in the league
» Is a featured player on the team and has impact on the outcome of the game
» Player can't be taken out of the game in one-on-one matchup
» Has a consistent level of performance each week
» Plays at a championship level performance
» Rates in the top 10 at his position in the league

[uconnjack8]

He's average.  And the average of the votes in the poll indicates he is average.  He is perfectly average.  I believe you can put lipstick on him in the form of WRs and protection and he will look prettier.  As pretty as Jim Everett.  Will that be enough to win a SB?  It could be enough for a single run if many things come together.  It will be a herculean effort on the part of coaches and front office to bring together enough of the right pieces at the right time but it can be done and much stranger things have happened in recent Giants history.

I'm not arguing in favor of Daniel Jones but I also don't believe we are doomed to some kind of playoff purgatory.  The way things look, the Giants are keeping Jones and I have no say in anything so this might be nothing but a cope on my part, but I like Schoen enough and Daboll quite a bit to believe they'll keep the Giants in contention long enough where the right moment might cross our path.  Keeping fingers crossed.

My opinion is pretty close to yours.  I think one thing to keep in mind right now in the NFC is the dearth of star QBs. 

Getting to a Super Bowl from the NFC surely will not be as daunting as will be in the AFC for the foreseeable future.

[Stringer Bell]

Would you say great is a blue-chipper, while good is a red-chipper?

Mike Lombardi's definition for each:

Definition of a blue-chip player

» Player demonstrates rare abilities and can create mismatches that have an obvious impact on the game
» Is a premier player in the league and a weapon on the field
» Combines competitiveness and skill to have a consistent championship-level performance
» Rates in the top five at his position in the league


Definition of a red-chip player

» Player has abilities that can create mismatches vs. most opponents in the league
» Is a featured player on the team and has impact on the outcome of the game
» Player can't be taken out of the game in one-on-one matchup
» Has a consistent level of performance each week
» Plays at a championship level performance
» Rates in the top 10 at his position in the league

If that is the definition, DJ is not even a red-chip prospect.

He does not create mismatches against "most" opponents, only those with severe deficiencies (see Vikings).

He can be taken out of the game fairly easily.

He has neither been consistent, nor has he played at a championship level.

And he is not top 10 at his position.

Whether these are the right measures / definitions is a separate discussion. But based on these standards, DJ does not measure up.

[kingm56]

https://twitter.com/TheGiantsWire/status/1630651477608767494

DJ is absolutely a good QB; so is Carr, Tannehill, Cousins, Prescott...

[kingm56]

And this needs to go beyond just the discussion around Jones. I have a friend who wanted to trade our 1st round pick for Jalen Ramsey and his $25M cap hit. Progress isn't linear and this season very much reminded me of the Knicks season from 2 years ago so people need to temper expectations and not treat next year like you expect 10+ wins simply because we won 9 last year.

A notion I have repeatedly expressed here; yet, pundits tell fans a different story and it's believed by the masses; regardless, really good perspective!

[True Blue]

Would you say great is a blue-chipper, while good is a red-chipper?

Mike Lombardi's definition for each:

Definition of a blue-chip player

» Player demonstrates rare abilities and can create mismatches that have an obvious impact on the game
» Is a premier player in the league and a weapon on the field
» Combines competitiveness and skill to have a consistent championship-level performance
» Rates in the top five at his position in the league


Definition of a red-chip player

» Player has abilities that can create mismatches vs. most opponents in the league
» Is a featured player on the team and has impact on the outcome of the game
» Player can't be taken out of the game in one-on-one matchup
» Has a consistent level of performance each week
» Plays at a championship level performance
» Rates in the top 10 at his position in the league

Stringer said it best before I had a chance to reply. I agree with his post fully and have nothing to add to it. He summarized it perfectly.

Their definitions are irrelevant as I would consider both labels, or "chips", to be great. I do not feel Jones even comes close to meeting either of the criteria that you presented.

[GloryDays]

Or you could say that the Giants want him back at $32.5 because they don't "know" that he's the guy and this will give them another year to make a decision and/or they don't have better options and this is the best of some bad options.  Remember they didn't pick up his option.  Plus, they see things in the game and/or practice that outsiders (fans) don't see or don't understand. 

If that is the case, they are not good enough to be in charge of this team. Looking at tapes and stats, they should have known last year that Jones is pretty good and worthy of a contract around $25 million a year. As i already stated in another post, this hand-ringing has cost us ~$20mil, but some, due to their evaluation deficiencies, want to make him even more expensive and even more difficult to sign.