Big Blue Huddle

Is a great WR behind an average QB better, or is a great QB with average receivers better? That is the question

I was reading through Great Blue North this morning and saw this blip and figured I'd share https://gbnreport.com/giants-report-thoughts-on-the-draft/

Maybe there's more hope than some believe 

"...in fact, there have been rumblings that head coach Brian Daboll had been lobbying for the Giants to take a WR with their first round pick, possibly even if one of the top QB was still on the board at that point. Just maybe Daboll recalls that Josh Allen, whom he has been credited with 'developing' in Buffalo really didn't emerge as a top player in the NFL until the Bills went out and acquired a true #1 receiver in Stefon Diggs. Whatever, Giants fans probably shouldn't underestimate how impactful a really good receiver can have on a team.

Indeed, in addition to the Bills' Allen, Joe Burrow didn't really take off in Cincinnati until the Bengals' selected Ja'Marr Chase, his former teammate at LSU with the 6th in 2021, while there questions being asked in Miami whether Tua Tagovcailoa was indeed a legitimate franchise QB before the Dolphins brought in Tyreek Hill and Jaylen Waddle. And we could go and name QBs from Jaylen Hurts to Geno Smith whose careers improved dramatically once given elite receivers with which to work.

And one can also look at the Giants own history. Back in 2008, for example, they appeared to be on cruise control to a possible second straight Super Bowl appearance before Plaxico Burress shot himself – and his career – in the leg and the 11-1 Giants finished the season 1-4 and crashed out of the playoffs in the first round. They were crowned champions again in 2011 with Eli throwing to a couple of Pro Bowl receivers in Hakeem Nicks and Victor Cruz, only to have the bottom fall out the following season, which coincided with Nicks being injured and never playing at that level again. And while there has been a tendency to dismiss the impact of Odell Beckham, the reality is that Eli had the best three-year run of his career from 2014-2016 during which the Giants had a top 10 offense in both 2014 and 2015 and made the playoffs in 2016. It's also hard not to notice that the bottom really fell out for the Giants in 2017 around the time that Odell was injured. Indeed, the fact is that over the course of his career, Eli was a very good QB when he had special receivers, but was closer to ordinary when he didn't..."

I'm happier than a squirrel living in a nut tree alongside a bird feeder, with the way things turned out. IMO, there was only one QB in the draft that would become a future star: Caleb Williams...and it could turn out to take a year or two before he shines, and the Bears are in great position for him to do so with DJ Moore and Rome Odunze at starting WRs. The Bears are loaded with offensive targets, that should make Williams looked very good out of the gate

I figured all along that we'd take a WR, and was hoping it would come down to Harrison or Nabers, and at that point, I didn't care which way they went because I figure Schoen and crew would be far more qualified than me to make the choice. Bottom line: Happy as a kitten with a ball of string and a catnip stuffed play mouse

Next year, maybe we'll be in a position to draft Carson Beck...who knows? 

If you listen to nothing more than the last ten minutes or so, it's worth it. Toomer goes into a lot of detail about becoming a pro, what it takes physically and mentally...about not fearing about competition, but actually wanting it, etc. Amani tells it like it is (it's simply business) from a player's perspective and his unique point of view on DJ as well as running backs. He explains to players that you have to get better every year or you're gone, and don't fear being replaced, but embrace it and use it to push yourself further

A good example is Kayvon who spent the offseason getting bigger and stronger, as shown here in Spring workout...exactly as Toomer explains in his dialogue. He looks jacked and will look great across his new bookend Burns. They will push each other

Quote from: Jclayton92 on May 02, 2024, 10:18:59 AMThe thing with Lock is that he isn't scared to throw the ball down the field. If Jones comes in with his dink and dunk approach yet again while Lock is throwing deep in camp then there might be traction from everyone for him to get the nod.

The thing is, DJ does exactly what he's told to do. Daboll knew that DJ had almost no time for big plays to run their course, so DJ was told to "dink and dunk", which also cuts down on interceptions, while avoiding the never-ending pass rush due to the poor line

Hopefully, getting some decent vets on the offensives line and a new OL coach will allow time for plays to play out as planned. DJ can make long throws, but he has to have time for the receivers to get down the field. It should be real interesting to see what the OL does this season with the changes made

I've never listened to Amani Toomer in the past, but I found his take incredibly interesting. Really smart guy. Probably the best and most honest post draft review, but much, much more

We traded this year's 7th rd pick for Boogie last season, but he barely saw the field 

He was a 2nd round pick of the Bills in '21 (I think) and was highly rated. I've read that Wink didn't like (or want) him. I have no idea if that is true or not, but I know there was ongoing animosity between Wink and Daboll and I "think" that Boogie was a guy Daboll wanted and it rubbed Wink the wrong way...who knows

I've also read that he's a perfect 3-tech more so than a LB/ER. As closely as I follow the Giants, I have almost no knowledge of this guy. He was highly rated in 2021 as one of the top ERs in the class. I don't know what went wrong in Buffalo that they would give up on him and take a 7th for him...or if that was just a handshake over beers with Daboll...or if he just didn't fit in with the Bill's where they were overloaded. So hopefully, some of you will fill me in. I would love to find out that he's the real deal and politics caused him to sit the bench last year

A bit of a stretch calling Theo another "Mark Bavaro"...LOL, but I'd take that. Personally, I'm hoping he is more like Jason Witten who always knew how to be open and get the first down and the QBs best friend. Of course, my feelings are directly proportionate to my disgust with how Witten single-handedly made life miserable for Giants' fans for years. I'd like to return the favor to Dallas 

Quote from: londonblue on May 01, 2024, 11:01:56 AMMarcellus Johnson has the kind of profile which suggests a legitimate shot to make the practice squad. If a rookie UDFA coming off an injury, even a high upside one, challenges to earn a swing T/back-up role that is not necessarily a good sign for us.

He appears (to me anyway) to be a project that they think can be molded into a solid backup. I think they are thinking (hoping) Philips is over his injury (torn quad) and how quickly he recovers from the surgery he had in January

To me, I'm more interested in seeing what Alex Johnson the skinny 6-1, 170-pound Cornerback from UCLA, is going to do. The Giants paid him the second most money to get him to sign (115k I believe). Primarily a slot CB, but is versatile and can play multiple roles - sort of a younger version of A-A-ron Robinson without an injury history. His film looks good, and he seems to have a nose for the ball - yet another "ball hawk". Will probably need to add weight as did Flott


As with any UDFAs, most are camp fodder, but usually one or two find their way to the practice squad and sometimes even more

The three I'm watching closely are Marcellus Johnson, Alex Johnson, and Casey Rogers. If one or two workout, that'd be a win IMO

Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 01, 2024, 10:29:57 AMAnd if you are being honest you will admit that there are posters who have written Jones off in no uncertain terms.  As an example I present @Jclayton92 as the poster boy of this group.  He may even be right, but I'm pretty sure he would agree that this is his position.  OTOH, I think you'd be hard-pressed to name any poster who is as sold out on Jones definitely emerging as a franchise QB - it is couched more as a possibility, generally on the hope that the OL massively improves.  But no one has said he will rise to a top 5/10 QB with anything like the certitude of the detractors.

I really hate to jump in on this debate and add a kick to a dead horse. I stand up and admit I have a lot of faith in DJ and believe he can be a great QB...so if you're looking for a believer...here I am!

A meaningless term derived from pundits, beat-writers, and fans alike is the oft-used and misused term, "franchise QB". In political discussions concerning the economy, it is the equivalent of the debaters on one side of the issue to wear "blinkers" (the eye coverings with a peephole that cover a horse's eyes so he won't be spooked - google it if you are unfamiliar with them) and have a "Zero-Sum" mentality (i.e., belief that there is a hard-line, limited amount of money in the world or country, for all to fight over, blah, blah, blah...because it is static instead of variable and growing...which makes no sense because of population growth, etc. In the real world, money is more a concept than actual currency, but I digress). Such is the problem with fans who believe a team is a one-man show, and get that one man, and nothing else matters

There is such a thing as a "dynasty" (Oakland A's, Cincy Reds, Yanks, Celtics, Steelers, Patriots, and lately the Chiefs), but for all those who believe those dynasties happened because of a single player on a team of many players, is stuck in the "zero sum" mentality. To them, Tom Brady would have won 7 Super Bowls whether or not his coaches and players on the Patriots were even there. To them, Brady would have won 7 SBs with the Browns, or the Commanders, the Cardinals, the Chargers, etc., etc. That's because the ONLY thing that matters is a QB

So...a "franchise QB" is actually a "good QB" on a great team (typically a "dynasty") with great management, great coaches, great players all around, and great role players

Like it or not, DJ has never played behind an adequate NFL offensive line. He has never had above average receivers. He has never had continuity in head coaches, offensive coordinators, or QB coaches. The scheme he was supposed to learn, changed by the time he learned it...so he has had to start over, again and again

Impatient fans think there is an instant fix to a struggling team...usually a "franchise QB". To call it short-sighted would be a conciliatory use of the word

Bottom line: please get behind the team and exercise a little patience as this team is being built one piece at a time under assumingly good leadership. It can happen. It happened with the Knicks recently once they abandoned trying to build a team by overpaying aging vets. Shoen is NEVER going to make a decision on the QB because he trusts fans' opinions (or would even waste his time paying attention to it). And no amount of arguing is ever going to change a fan's opinion among other fans. So why do we go through this never-ending debate that's been going on for years now...on a daily basis. Your opinion nor my opinion changes nothing and never will...and the front office doesn't care that you even have an opinion

]

Still watching Black Sails, but I see a new series drops tomorrow (May 2) that looks very intriguing. Has a "Suits" vibe, but seemingly more violent, judging by the trailer

"A Man in Full" Netflix...limited series

I'm too lazy to type out the cast so a picture



Trailer:

Sorta good news...just read this from the NYS Govt page

"Governor Kathy Hochul today announced Cazenovia College has been selected as the site that the New York State Police will lease for its new State Police Auxiliary Academy. "

 "The additional auxiliary academy is part of the Governor's plan to fund an unprecedented number of Basic School classes, which was announced earlier this year."

"Governor Hochul secured more than $66 million in the Fiscal Year 2024 Enacted Budget to fund two additional State Police classes."

Not sure how well that will go over with the rich residents. Cazenovia is one of the wealthiest villages in Upstate NYS competing year in and year out with Skaneateles, Canandaigua, and Saratoga Springs

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on April 30, 2024, 03:33:20 PMNew coaches or GM's that come in that inherit players they tend to treat those players as 'step-children'

At first sign of trouble they want to get rid of them.

Guys they bring in as FAs are like 'adopted children'

And guys they draft are like 'biological children' 

See how McAdoo treated Eli, TC with Kerry as couple examples of many.

That said, I still expect it to be Daniel but if Drew becomes Daboll's new 'pet project' it will be interesting if bias enters in the decision making process.

That might just be the best analogy I've ever read concerning the relationship between football players and coaches, LOL

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 30, 2024, 12:00:29 PMSince the Giants gave Johnson the "big bucks," I did a little digging.  He was one of Tony Pauline's sleepers

I've been researching him as well...and mainly because of the "Big Bucks". I watched a long interview with him, and he's a high character guy as well as an academic scholar. His brother plays for the Colts (DT) and there were others in his extended family who played in college and the NFL, so he knows what's expected of him at the next level

He seems to be a ball of clay for a coach to mold into anything the coach wants. I don't think he's starter material (yet, who knows?), but if he can give quality minutes backing up guards and tackles, that'd be good. Not as big as most tackles, but excels at horizontal shifting and mirroring pass rushes, hence, his best asset is pass protection at both guard and tackle. Needs to add muscle if he's going to help in pushing open lanes for the run game. Will probably spend a year on the practice squad

If we could pick more than one option, I'd click both 3T and boundary corner, as I see them equally important...probably the 3T more, just because we didn't draft any (maybe Casey Rogers will surprise  ). Unfortunately, this draft had some good 3Ts, but they were gone fast. We might have been able to get Wingo (not sure when he went, but it was much later than expected). I was hoping for Myles Cole who is listed as an ER, but was 6'5/295 and went late (7th rd to Jacksonville). I thought he could be groomed for 3T because of his size and being a successful ER

I would like a proven boundary corner, but also would like to see Flott and Hawkins III get plenty of reps to grow into the position. They don't learn the finer nuances of the position from the bench or in front of a white board. Still, a proven vet would be nice...especially if we were "going for it" this year (which I don't think we are)

I'm pretty happy where we're at and hope Daboll will allow the rookies to get their lumps by playing them. They need as much on-field experience as possible. It requires delayed gratification, which is in short supply among most fans, but I'm all for it. I'm not expecting a run for the Lombardi and would rather lose a couple of games we could have won, but got rookies plenty of time in the game

I was going to say the same thing...he has a sense of humor and he obviously follows "where players go wrong"

Judging by his breakdown when he got the call, and his family surrounding him that is his natural family since birth, who have stood behind him all the way...he's going to have high character, and will take to coaching in earnest. I love this guy and hope he's the ball hawk he was in college