It always happens about this time of year, when the new HOF class comes out. Next year Eli Manning becomes eligible for entry into the HOF. Does he make it? We have had this debate ever since he was still QBing the Giants but now it really means something.
Tom Rock of Newsday had a great article on this
https://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/tom-rock/eli-manning-hall-of-fame-qcuwehen.
As he also alludes to, in the next few years, guys like Brees, Brady, and Big Ben will also become eligible and that might make Eli's quest a bit tougher if he doesn't get in sooner.
One point Rock makes that I thought was an excellent point, say Eli wasn't a Manning and he didn't play in NY, would he still be as big option? Do 2 SB MVPs and middling regular season stats get you into the HOF?
I am pretty much 100% convinced Eli will get in. It might take more than one try though.
He's one of the most significant players in NY Giant history. He was MVP for two SB's but the Giants Defense really kept them in those games. He was a middling regular season QB who had ice in his veins during those two playoff runs.
I think he gets in because of the name and NY and because he's kept himself relevant. Especially on those Monday night games.
Personally, I have a high bar for the HOF. Although I would like to see him get it but I don't think he deserves it.
I think he's a first ballot cert.
2 x Superbowl MVP, both games won because of him. Knocking off the 18-0 Pats and 15-1 Packers along the way.
I think he's in first go around.
Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on February 10, 2024, 12:14:57 PMI think he's a first ballot cert.
2 x Superbowl MVP, both games won because of him. Knocking off the 18-0 Pats and 15-1 Packers along the way.
I think he's in first go around.
Exactly how I feel, Ed. As Jeff stated, not a first or second ballot guy, but he gets in.
https://twitter.com/GaryMyersNY/status/1756380727447339389
To date, only Jim Plunkett is the lone NFL Quarterback who has played in and won two Super Bowls and has NOT been elected into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Jim was a heck of a QB for the Raiders after getting his second and final chance to jump-start what was a disappointing career which started with high expectations.
That being said, the 2007 and 2011 NFL Champion Giants weren't the greatest teams of all-time. They played the best as a team when it counted the most and their quarterback made the critical plays, at the most critical moments in both games, to ensure Giants victories. Such accomplishments are far from ordinary and cannot be overstated in deference to the accomplishments of the other worthy candidates. The fact is that Eli Manning currently has no peer when it comes to such accomplishments. Therefore, they must be considered as extraordinary which, against the bottom line, bodes well for him.
Whether or not he is elected in his first year of eligibility will depend on the candidate list, who on that list is seriously overdue for election and who are, by traditional definition, "sure thing" first year ballot HoFers.
Let's see that list, first, and have a discussion about his probability of getting selected.
Peace!
Quote from: Ed Vette on February 10, 2024, 12:13:32 PMHe's one of the most significant players in NY Giant history. He was MVP for two SB's but the Giants Defense really kept them in those games. He was a middling regular season QB who had ice in his veins during those two playoff runs.
I think he gets in because of the name and NY and because he's kept himself relevant. Especially on those Monday night games.
Personally, I have a high bar for the HOF. Although I would like to see him get it but I don't think he deserves it.
2007 Defense was a huge factor
2011 The defense was terrible until something clicked the last month of the season .... we were 9-7 .... Eli led what ? 6 game winning drives that season ???
I give Eli credit for the 2011 Super Bowl season more than any other factor
We also had what the 30-31th ranked rushing offense ? And our once elite O-line aged and fell off a cliff
2007 Yes Defense carried the team
2011 Eli carried the entire team and the defense eventually clicked and completed the team
If Antonio Gates got snubbed this year no one should feel confident that Eli is a lock for the first ballot.
Eli was the QB for the 2005, 2006, the very good 2008 team and the 2016 team.
Ben Roethlisberger was a better QB. Should he get in?
Quote from: Ed Vette on February 10, 2024, 11:26:41 PMEli was the QB for the 2005, 2006, the very good 2008 team and the 2016 team.
Ben Roethlisberger was a better QB. Should he get in?
Had 2008 played out without Osi getting hurt, or the Plax incident derailing the offense, it 11-1 may have become 15-1 and back to back and this thread wouldn't even exist. Eli would be a foregone conclusion for the HoF.
I mean, he won't get any votes by the San Diego press, that we know. But the rest, he finished his career top 10 all time in several categories, was an Ironman for many years and the two Super Bowl MVPs are huge.
But will it be enough?
How about this? Both Eli AND Tom Coughlin go in, TOGETHER! Tom has been a semi-finalist for a couple of years now and going in together may actually help each other's cause.
Peace!
I love Eli but man, is it hard to project.
On one hand, he's a 2x SB MVP. QB of a team that knocked off the undefeated Patriots, and had several good years.
On the other hand, we have the Eli that threw some of the most mind-blowing INTs I've ever seen on any level of football. Those later years of his career were awful (except for that 2016 season).
Ultimately, I think he gets in. The name, the market, the SB MVPs, and the memorable plays. Might become a bit more difficult unless he gets in before Big Ben, Brees, etc become eligible.
Consider that TE Antonio Gates didn't make this year's HOF class. Is Eli Manning anywhere near the QB that Gates was a TE?
Quote from: MightyGiants on February 11, 2024, 09:39:37 AMConsider that TE Antonio Gates didn't make this year's HOF class. Is Eli Manning anywhere near the QB that Gates was a TE?
Whether one views this as fair or not, the fact is that postseason accomplishments can really impact voting very dramatically. The Chargers in the Rivers/Gates/Tomlinson era were consistently disappointing in postseason play relative to their regular season performances. I'm not sure if they even made it to an AFC championship game. If they did, it wasn't more than once.
I'm not saying Gates shouldn't be in. I think he should, and I am pretty confident that he will be. He was a terrific player. As I said earlier, I don't have a strong view that Eli will get in on the first ballot either. I think he has a chance but he probably deserves to have to wait a couple rounds and may well have to.
Big Ben is definitely getting in.
I would be shocked if Eli gets in one his first ballot. His career stats outside of 2 perfect super bowl runs is rather pedestrian.
If Joe Namath can get in with his stats then they should carry Eli in on the other player's shoulders.
Namath gets in because of one SB and his charismatic character. Eli should get in because of a couple of plays that will go down in SB history as maybe the best ever.
Quote from: TDToomer on February 11, 2024, 12:01:29 PMBig Ben is definitely getting in.
I would be shocked if Eli gets in one his first ballot. His career stats outside of 2 perfect super bowl runs is rather pedestrian.
His efficiency numbers may just be so-so, but career totals matter a lot for the HOF as they reflect durability and longevity. We hear all the time that "availability is the best ability." Eli's picture should be in the NFL lexicon next to that saying. He is in the top 10 all time in the most hallowed QB statistics like passing yards and passing touchdowns. He is ahead of guys like John Elway in both. This is an absolutely grueling game, and he managed to never once be sick at sea. Not one time. Almost no players who played at least 10 seasons in the NFL can make that claim. It's pretty special, and I would argue it's a big part of his HOF resume.
Quote from: LennG on February 11, 2024, 12:10:38 PMIf Joe Namath can get in with his stats then they should carry Eli in on the other player's shoulders.
Namath gets in because of one SB and his charismatic character. Eli should get in because of a couple of plays that will go down in SB history as maybe the best ever.
I was going to compare Namath getting in to Eli but figured I would get hate posts. The HOF screwed up with Namath and most everyone thinks he should never have been inducted. There must have been less of a focus on stats when he get his votes. Passing rating didn't exist and a 50% completion ratio with more interceptions and touchdowns were looked over. So unfortunately for Eli those fancy stats will be part of the evaluation.
I think we should be asking non Giants fans and the media outside of NYC will about Eli's HOF chances. Too many have rose colored glasses.
Why isn't Phil in the HOF but ELI gets in right away? Phil was playing at a high level later in his career than Eli was.
Quote from: TDToomer on February 11, 2024, 12:58:30 PMI was going to compare Namath getting in to Eli but figured I would get hate posts. The HOF screwed up with Namath and most everyone thinks he should never have been inducted. There must have been less of a focus on stats when he get his votes. Passing rating didn't exist and a 50% completion ratio with more interceptions and touchdowns were looked over. So unfortunately for Eli those fancy stats will be part of the evaluation.
I think we should be asking non Giants fans and the media outside of NYC will about Eli's HOF chances. Too many have rose colored glasses.
Why isn't Phil in the HOF but ELI gets in right away? Phil was playing at a high level later in his career than Eli was.
I agree in spirit about Namath as a sort of comparison, but to me there's a huge difference between doing it twice and doing it just once.
If Eli had only won in 07 and then say lost the San Fran game in the NFC champ game in 2011, then I could see him not getting in. But to not only win it twice but to do it against the Pats in the teeth of the Brady/Belichick dynasty and to win the SB MVP both times, effectively outplaying Tom Brady, puts him over the top, and fairly comfortably in my opinion.
Us Giants fans know he should have 3 rings
But still think he gets into the HOF
Also.please never put Eli even though we love him
With Elway who might be top 5 or 7
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 11, 2024, 01:28:52 PMI agree in spirit about Namath as a sort of comparison, but to me there's a huge difference between doing it twice and doing it just once.
If Eli had only won in 07 and then say lost the San Fran game in the NFC champ game in 2011, then I could see him not getting in. But to not only win it twice but to do it against the Pats in the teeth of the Brady/Belichick dynasty and to win the SB MVP both times, effectively outplaying Tom Brady, puts him over the top, and fairly comfortably in my opinion.
Dave
With that reasoning, wouldn't that also be a case for Tom Coughlin getting in? He went head-to-head with BB and beat him both times. We give Eli all the credit, but TC was the driving force behind both wins.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 11, 2024, 01:28:52 PMI agree in spirit about Namath as a sort of comparison, but to me there's a huge difference between doing it twice and doing it just once.
If Eli had only won in 07 and then say lost the San Fran game in the NFC champ game in 2011, then I could see him not getting in. But to not only win it twice but to do it against the Pats in the teeth of the Brady/Belichick dynasty and to win the SB MVP both times, effectively outplaying Tom Brady, puts him over the top, and fairly comfortable in my opinion.
You're spot on, my friend. You cannot simply dismiss the magnitude of taking down Tom Brady not once, but twice, in two tries in the big game. Further, the magnitude of historical importance riding on XLII must be factored into the equation. Oh well, the Patriot machine choked on an Arizona desert dust devil hence its demise, right? No, the first perfect 19-0 season denied will not be allowed to be explained away with such casual dismissal and disrespect for what the Giants' team accomplished, but the kingpin going down courtesy of that legendary final drive and the play for the ages, the "Helmet Catch" which was a sign from heaven above that the Giants would not be denied that day. Eli Manning was the central cast member of what was, arguably, the single most impactful play in the history of the Super Bowl. Think about that and digest that concept for a moment. That means nobody else in that Hall of Fame can lay claim to anything resembling that, try as they might. The second Super Bowl involved perhaps a technically more impressive throw and catch, on the final drive which also served as a sign they would not be denied that day. Yet again, Mr. Manning was the central cast member. In both occasions, he was awarded the MVP of the game. History shows that every QB who has earned two or more Super Bowl MVP awards is in the HoF. That will seal the deal as far as his inevitable election in. Whether it is next year or future years, as I've mentioned before, depends on who is running. Further objective evidence supporting his vote are both playoff runs which were nothing less than amazing. The 2005, 2006 and 2008 playoff teams, the 2010 10-6 team had some positives erased by losing the division to the Iggles and the 2016 Wild Card. Finally, as we've mentioned before, his Ironman consecutive starts record (210, and 234 of 236 total) and top-10 all-time records (several), add additional support for his cause.
He was an NFL legend at a time when the NFL had some of the greatest QBs in the history of the game. Out of his own draft class (2004), he and Big Ben from the Steelers are the only ones who played and won in the Super Bowl (Manning 2 for 2, Ben 2 for 3). Both are going into the HoF and were legends for their respective teams.
The time is coming where this discussion will be put to the test and we'll find out, once and for all, whether or not Eli is a first-ballot HoFer. My dream scenario is that both he and his head coach, Tom Coughlin, go in together.
Peace!
Quote from: LennG on February 11, 2024, 02:30:47 PMDave
With that reasoning, wouldn't that also be a case for Tom Coughlin getting in? He went head-to-head with BB and beat him both times. We give Eli all the credit, but TC was the driving force behind both wins.
Hi Lenn.
Tom Coughlin has been a semi-finalist for two years now. This past season, Buddy Parker, former head coach of the Lions, was nominated as a finalist for induction but he did not make the final cut for one of the two "senior" selections (NOTE: one went to Steve McMichael of the Bears, the other to Randy Gradishar of the Broncos; both very deserving).
I have a feeling, with Eli on the selection list, Tom might get a greater push from those who nominated him. To have both of them go in, simultaneously, would be ideal from a historical and emotional standpoint.
Peace!
Quote from: LennG on February 11, 2024, 12:10:38 PMIf Joe Namath can get in with his stats then they should carry Eli in on the other player's shoulders.
Namath gets in because of one SB and his charismatic character. Eli should get in because of a couple of plays that will go down in SB history as maybe the best ever.
Lenn, by this measurement Phil should've been in years ago. I believe he's still deserving at some point soon.
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Eli is arguably a top 5 big game clutch performer in SB and SB run history.
If you look at his career regular seasons, you'll see that with no mobility he only had decent pass blocking OL 3-4 seasons out of his career and 2011 surely wasn't one of them.
He carried the 2011 Giants on his back!
To my mind he should be a 1st ballot.
BTW. I hope that he continues to milk Mara for everything he can get for the next several decades after the boy wonder hung him out to dry on the field.
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Quote from: LennG on February 11, 2024, 02:30:47 PMDave
With that reasoning, wouldn't that also be a case for Tom Coughlin getting in? He went head-to-head with BB and beat him both times. We give Eli all the credit, but TC was the driving force behind both wins.
Lenn,
Yes, I absolutely think Coughlin should be in. He's a lock in my opinion. Not only did he have a great two Super Bowl run with the Giants, but he did great work in expansion Jacksonville too. I don't think Coughlin is even up for debate. Coaches usually take longer to get in though. Look at how long it took Parcells.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 11, 2024, 04:04:51 PMLenn,
Yes, I absolutely think Coughlin should be in. He's a lock in my opinion. Not only did he have a great two Super Bowl run with the Giants, but he did great work in expansion Jacksonville too. I don't think Coughlin is even up for debate. Coaches usually take longer to get in though. Look at how long it took Parcells.
You're absolutely right, and it took comparing him to Vince Lombardi to help further his cause (NOTE: having the late Mickey Corcoran, who had Lombardi as a basketball coach, and who also coached and mentored Parcells, sure made an effective link between the two legends).
But take the late Buddy Parker, for example. He is the last head coach to deliver a championship for the Detroit Lions and was a legend of his day. Still, in the wake of the Lions coming to life in recent years, and his name being thrown around for reconsideration, he still hasn't made it.
For every Tom Coughlin there is a worthy Mike Holmgren and Mike Shanahan who also deserve fair consideration as well as the late Dan Reeves, both player, assistant and head coach.
So, you are most correct the coaches do take a while longer. There are many who deserve the honor; however, there are so few spots for them to be elected while they compete against former players of the day as well as other non team-specific roles (e.g. Ed and Steve Sabol for NFL Films).
I believe, starting next year, they are expanding the historical candidate count from two to three which should allow for more coaches to be included. You should see a coach, or other non-player, and two historical players being elected.
We'll see how it pans out for the 2025 class but the initial newly eligible list has about three or four names, Eli included, who should be selected first-time out of the gate, in my opinion.
Peace!
2 words
namath and bradshaw
not even a debate eli deserves it
Quote from: killarich on February 11, 2024, 07:27:53 PM2 words
namath and bradshaw
not even a debate eli deserves it
It is absolutely a debate which is why I said ask non Giants homers what they think to get a non-NYC centric perspective. Jim Plunkett and Simms should be in if Eli is a no brainer.
Quote from: TDToomer on February 11, 2024, 08:36:22 PMIt is absolutely a debate which is why I said ask non Giants homers what they think to get a non-NYC centric perspective. Jim Plunkett and Simms should be in if Eli is a no brainer.
That really does not mean anything
Non-Giant "homers" also believed and probably still believe Romo was a better QB then Eli
Quote from: killarich on February 11, 2024, 09:50:29 PMThat really does not mean anything
Non-Giant "homers" also believed and probably still believe Romo was a better QB then Eli
There is no such thing as a non-Giants homer. The term homer only applies to a team you root for not against.
Quote from: TDToomer on February 11, 2024, 09:59:15 PMThere is no such thing as a non-Giants homer. The term homer only applies to a team you root for not against.
You do realize I wrote exactly what YOU wrote ...right ?
Quote from: killarich on February 11, 2024, 10:07:16 PMYou do realize I wrote exactly what YOU wrote ...right ?
Not quite but whatever