Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 18, 2024, 09:13:59 AMI think the whole team thing is the result of the 2011 CBA

So if the Giants decided after the season was over and Neal had left that they would make the move, they could only communicate that to Neal indirectly


https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2014/04/26/coaches-players-talk-shop-nfl-agreement/8227871/

Rich,

That makes more sense now and is understandable as to why they would go that route. 

I think you have to give him a shot with the new O-line coach to see if he can work as a RT. There's too much pedigree and potential upside not to take that shot. If he still looks the same through a quarter of the season, I think you pull the plug then.

Quote from: jgrangers2 on March 18, 2024, 12:40:59 PMI think you have to give him a shot with the new O-line coach to see if he can work as a RT. There's too much pedigree and potential upside not to take that shot. If he still looks the same through a quarter of the season, I think you pull the plug then.

I listened to the podcast yesterday (In my opinion, it's not one of Jordan's better works).   Even Jordan suggested that Neal would start camp at RT and be moved later (if Neal fails to handle the RT position)

Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 18, 2024, 10:12:31 AMRich,

That makes more sense now and is understandable as to why they would go that route. 

If this is the case it might be their way of telling him it might be wise for him to start working with one of those independent OL coaches to start learning the position.

I see Neal taking 50% snaps at starting RT with the new guy we signed from Raiders the other 50%. Neal will get plenty of snaps at guard too. If the competition at RT is close, I could see Neals youth and draft slot giving him an edge. But if he is clearly outplayed, he gets to compete to compete for a starting guard spot. I'd love to see him earn a starting spot purely on merit

Quote from: gregf on March 18, 2024, 01:04:54 PMI see Neal taking 50% snaps at starting RT with the new guy we signed from Raiders the other 50%. Neal will get plenty of snaps at guard too. If the competition at RT is close, I could see Neals youth and draft slot giving him an edge. But if he is clearly outplayed, he gets to compete to compete for a starting guard spot. I'd love to see him earn a starting spot purely on merit

If the competition is close at RT than the front office didn't address the Oline adequately and the season is done anyway. 

Neal needs to move to guard because it's his last hope and there is no way Schoen can enter into the 2024-25 season with Neal penciled in anywhere on the line yet alone Tackle.  

Quote from: gregf on March 18, 2024, 01:04:54 PMI see Neal taking 50% snaps at starting RT with the new guy we signed from Raiders the other 50%. Neal will get plenty of snaps at guard too. If the competition at RT is close, I could see Neals youth and draft slot giving him an edge. But if he is clearly outplayed, he gets to compete to compete for a starting guard spot. I'd love to see him earn a starting spot purely on merit

greg: Of the many possibilities suggested here and elsewhere, I like yours the best. The only downside is that either guy with a chance at playing tackle instead of guard could (intentionally or not) try harder at tackle (or not try as hard at guard) with knowledge that the tackle job pays more.  The counter to this is that (this year) both men get paid same amount no matter which job they win.  Bob

Quote from: Bob In PA on March 18, 2024, 03:40:30 PMgreg: Of the many possibilities suggested here and elsewhere, I like yours the best. The only downside is that either guy with a chance at playing tackle instead of guard could (intentionally or not) try harder at tackle (or not try as hard at guard) with knowledge that the tackle job pays more.  The counter to this is that (this year) both men get paid same amount no matter which job they win.  Bob

Bob - I think they realize that getting to a 2nd contract at Guard by your team is better than not getting a 2nd contract at tackle by your team likely due to sub performance and getting a backup's contract from another team.

Quote from: jgrangers2 on March 18, 2024, 12:40:59 PMI think you have to give him a shot with the new O-line coach to see if he can work as a RT. There's too much pedigree and potential upside not to take that shot. If he still looks the same through a quarter of the season, I think you pull the plug then.

This makes sense in theory, but it might be tricky in practice.

Personally, if I were Daboll, I would lean heavily on Bricillo's input on this subject. If Bricillo told me at the end of August that, based on what he has seen in camp and the preseason, he thinks Eleumenor is the better RT right now and gives us the best chance to win, I would not usurp him and force him to go with Neal because my boss and I had an agenda of trying to make a failed draft pick work. I would definitely go with whoever I thought helped give the team the best chance to win, including in week one.

If Neal wants to keep starting at RT for this team, I don't think expecting him to beat out a FA OT we brought in for $7mm a year (low for that position) is asking a lot of a third year player.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 18, 2024, 06:30:15 PMThis makes sense in theory, but it might be tricky in practice.

Personally, if I were Daboll, I would lean heavily on Bricillo's input on this subject. If Bricillo told me at the end of August that, based on what he has seen in camp and the preseason, he thinks Eleumenor is the better RT right now and gives us the best chance to win, I would not usurp him and force him to go with Neal because my boss and I had an agenda of trying to make a failed draft pick work. I would definitely go with whoever I thought helped give the team the best chance to win, including in week one.

If Neal wants to keep starting at RT for this team, I don't think expecting him to beat out a FA OT we brought in for $7mm a year (low for that position) is asking a lot of a third year player.

I would love to see the Giants decode by July 1 and get everyone into their actual positions for the entire camp.  No "let's experiment til Sept 1 then decide."

Quote from: Philosophers on March 18, 2024, 10:14:20 PMI would love to see the Giants decode by July 1 and get everyone into their actual positions for the entire camp.  No "let's experiment til Sept 1 then decide."

I think they can go with a working assumption of their starting team and hope to stick to it, but I don't like the idea of making firm commitments on July 1st to the point where it doesn't matter how guys look in camp and the preseason. I could see doing that on an established, strong line, but not one that has been in flux. Performance in camp and preseason has to matter, and it has to justify any working assumption they have on July 1st.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 18, 2024, 06:30:15 PMThis makes sense in theory, but it might be tricky in practice.

Personally, if I were Daboll, I would lean heavily on Bricillo's input on this subject. If Bricillo told me at the end of August that, based on what he has seen in camp and the preseason, he thinks Eleumenor is the better RT right now and gives us the best chance to win, I would not usurp him and force him to go with Neal because my boss and I had an agenda of trying to make a failed draft pick work. I would definitely go with whoever I thought helped give the team the best chance to win, including in week one.

If Neal wants to keep starting at RT for this team, I don't think expecting him to beat out a FA OT we brought in for $7mm a year (low for that position) is asking a lot of a third year player.

Obviously if he continues to look terrible in camp, I'd just go with Eleumanor at RT. My main question is at what point do you make the shift to guard? I can't imagine you can have him working on both positions at once so if you don't make the shift in camp, is it the kind of thing where he just becomes a healthy scratch for a few weeks while he works on playing guard?

Evan Neal reminds me a lot of Ereck Flowers...

Give Eleumenor the starting caliber reps at Rt, it is his job to lose.  That will either trigger something within Neal and hopefully get him working toward the right road under the guidance of Bricillo and if that is not an option that it sets the stage for the move to guard. 

Neal has not earned the right to anything other than the opportunity to compete for a job. 

It would be a mistake to give Neal any kind of edge on any depth chart associated with the Oline. 

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 18, 2024, 10:58:26 PMI think they can go with a working assumption of their starting team and hope to stick to it, but I don't like the idea of making firm commitments on July 1st to the point where it doesn't matter how guys look in camp and the preseason. I could see doing that on an established, strong line, but not one that has been in flux. Performance in camp and preseason has to matter, and it has to justify any working assumption they have on July 1st.

The only reason I am saying it is to have olenty if time to build cohesion and continuity among the starting five so they really know how the guy left and right moves.

It's not to reward a bad player by anointing him July 1.

Last year I felt the Giants experimented all through preseason camp up to the first regular season game and had not built any continuity.