Time to Clean House and start over?

[Giant Jim]

Tank means lose on purpose to move up spots in the draft. Trading Barkley during a lost season wouldn't mean they're trying to lose games. It would give other RB's on the team a chance to show what they can do and add either young players or draft picks.

[Rambo89]

Tank means lose on purpose to move up spots in the draft. Trading Barkley during a lost season wouldn't mean they're trying to lose games. It would give other RB's on the team a chance to show what they can do and add either young players or draft picks.

Barkley has missed a fair amount of time or been limited enough to where we see what the Giants have in other RB's (Gray excluded).  Trading him would be more about collecting assets to build with moving forward should this season look to be lost by the trade deadline.

[uconnjack8]

Barkley is not going to be with the team next year.  I would almost be shocked if he was. 

If they are out of the playoff picture at the end of October and they can trade him, it's not a fire sale, it's good management. 

 

[Woody]

If the team continues to play this bad over the next several weeks, it might be time to clean house and start over. I'm wondering if a contender would trade for Barkley near the trade deadline if he's healthy? I think after the season, Daniel Jones's contract is moveable and if the Giants have the chance to draft a can't miss QB, it might not be a bad idea to trade him. Jones is taking a beating and would benefit with a half decent OL with another team. I wonder if he hopes to be traded so he can have a chance to show what he can do? This would buy the Giants a couple more seasons to build the line with adequate back ups and develop a QB. I don't see the offensive line coming together for another couple of years, meaning Jones will be in his 7th season. How long can he keep going with the beating he takes almost every game?

I'm not trashing Jones or Barkley, but wonder if they'd still be around when the rest of the team is competitive.

By clean house are you talking players or coaching etc.
I think last year everybody was concerned if Kafta or Wink took a job with another team. I was as well. But Dabell must grow as a head coach and deal with his staff...if coaches are not getting the job done .   move on from  them ...what is going on now is not good.
It is one of two things ....poor coaching ( to regress this much) or draft staff including GM are not getting good players.

[TDToomer]

Barkley is not going to be with the team next year.  I would almost be shocked if he was. 

If they are out of the playoff picture at the end of October and they can trade him, it's not a fire sale, it's good management. 

 

If this is the case then why aren't they giving Gray offensive snaps to see is he is a future #1? Every team seems to break in a rookie RB but us and our #1 guy has been out 2 straight weeks. It's beyond frustrating.

[Giant Jim]

By clean house are you talking players or coaching etc.
I think last year everybody was concerned if Kafta or Wink took a job with another team. I was as well. But Dabell must grow as a head coach and deal with his staff...if coaches are not getting the job done .  move on from  them ...what is going on now is not good.
It is one of two things ....poor coaching ( to regress this much) or draft staff including GM are not getting good players.

Players that may not be productive 2 or 3 seasons form now. In Jones case, how much confidence do you think he'll have playing behind this terrible line another 2 seasons? Will he be damaged? Coaches are for another thread.

[Rambo89]

Players that may not be productive 2 or 3 seasons form now. In Jones case, how much confidence do you think he'll have playing behind this terrible line another 2 seasons? Will he be damaged? Coaches are for another thread.

No matter what if Jones doesn't improve upon his overall 2022 season in either 2023 or 2024 he'll be gone after 2024. 

[Philosophers]

No matter what if Jones doesn't improve upon his overall 2022 season in either 2023 or 2024 he'll be gone after 2024. 

Yeah 6-11 record and 15 TDs passsing will lead to a change.

[Rambo89]

Yeah 6-11 record and 15 TDs passsing will lead to a change.

If the Giants do that and that's all Jones ends up with they should be in the position to draft a QB next spring.  That's all hypothetical though. 

[Jclayton92]

People who should be on the block:

Barkley
Jones
Ojulari
Jackson
Mckinney
Waller

Is trade all of them, the only real dead cap we would have is 11 million the next 2-3 seasons for Jones and the assets in return for those guys could reshape our future.

[4 Aces]

They won't clean house again. Here's why:

*You don't know how much it bothers John Mara to quickly cycle through GM's and Head Coaches. He prides himself on running a stable, longterm organization and part of that means not reacting to the ebbs and flows - even bad years. You trust the people you hire and give them time to sink their teeth in. McAdoo, Gettleman, Shurmur & Judge flamed out so quickly, the absolute last thing he wants is to swap another regime out after 2 years.

*Injuries to key players will get them an easy pass. A bad record would hurt, but then "cooler heads prevail" and it's rationalized: Waller's hamstring acted up, Thomas got hurt on the opening drive (unreal), Barkley got hurt week 2 and Schmitz week 4. 

*Something Mara said back in 2017, during the fall-out benching Eli, Mara said bluntly "Who quarterbacks this team is my decision." It was a rare look into the ultimate control he has over this franchise and his willingness to exert it for the really important decisions. And honestly - I have no problem with that. It's his team. If I was the owner I'd want final say, too. My point? If it turns out DJ's not the guy, I don't think Mara holds that against Schoen since Mara was likely part of the groupthink to bring Jones (and Barkley) back.

*The absolute most that could happen (IMO) - barring them going full-blown Judge meltdown - is Mara's patented demanding a coordinator's head - as he did Hufnagel & Gilbride. Right now, Mike Kafka better hope Northwestern's still there, because he's in the crosshairs. And hiring a guy averaging 1.5 points a game at home doesn't exactly bring the wow factor.

Plenty of time to play out of it - but this team (and a lot of individuals on it, career-wise) need Thomas and Barkley back healthy.

[Giant Jim]

Every year except before the 2022 season, it's the same crap. Sign free agents and draft position players to fill voids from the previous season. I thought Mara would let Schoen break that MO and build the team year by year to steadily improve, instead of fixing just what's wrong with the previous year's team the following spring. For the 2024 season, they need to look to 2026 which means several of their top players won't be here. Stop drafting WR's, RB's and catch first/no block TE's. What players on the lines and the remainder of the D will be here in '26? The offensive line and QB are where you start so they can develop. After that, you fill in the rest of the D. Of course, if a good blocking TE with good hands comes across, you grab him.

A guard here, a running back there and a couple of WR's there every year doesn't cut it. Need to build a foundation, a core, not just patches.

[4 Aces]

Jim - I'm with you - keep investing in infrastructure until you're dominant. However - over the last 5 years, the Giants have drafted more OL in the top 3 rounds than any team in the NFL.

I wish the fix was as simple as investing, but there seems to be an organizational failure around the OL that spans many GMs, coaches and players. You see some of these other patchwork OLs around the league, like SEA's last week, with an inexperienced coordinator and they are putting a professional product on the field.

Something is very wrong here and it's not just personnel.

[Painter]

They have been historically been so bad over the first 4 games and with a pessimistic outlook today that I suppose it's not a surprise that some folks would "throw in the towel" and talk of a "break up and start over". Nothing could be sillier than that.

This team has more talented players than did last season's playoff game winning team. The problem on Defense is less one of a talent than it is of underperformance. That can and must be corrected which is up to the players and much as it is to the staff.

It would be hard to suggest that on Offense, the talent at Receiver is not notably better than it has been. And while the absence of Barkley, so far this year as will almost surely be so next year, it is and will be an issue moving ahead, the most pressing of such is at Quarterback.

It will be essential to determine what exactly is Daniel Jones's capability when and if playing behind an Oline which to date has gone from inadequate to disaster. That is the key issue on which all other decisions will hinge. And so for that reason, it can't be hurried, it can't be a product of desperation or surrender. As painful as it may be, it will take most if not all of the season, for Schoen/ Daboll to gather the necessary and indispensable facts. The last thing we should want is for them to start behaving like one of us.

Cheers!