Quote from: Ed Vette on May 07, 2024, 08:05:39 PMCamp armI like his pocket presence significantly more than Devitos.
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Show posts MenuQuote from: Ed Vette on May 07, 2024, 08:05:39 PMCamp armI like his pocket presence significantly more than Devitos.
Quote from: AYM on May 07, 2024, 09:30:54 PMFor what it's worth, the Giants gave up 20 more sacks than the 31st place team. It could be argued that there was a giant chasm between the Giants OL and the 28th ranked line.You could very well be 100% right as I haven't looked at the overall pressures, rankings etc and just looked at the base ratings pff gave teams olines.
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 07, 2024, 07:20:07 PMI am curious: do you think the fact that Jones was working behind the worst pass protection in the league and throwing to the worst receivers (per PFF) might have skewed last year's numbers when you compare that to Lock having the 28th pass protection, but throwing the 7th best receiver group in the league?Is there really that big of a difference in the 28th vs the 32nd to you?
Quote from: President Rick on May 07, 2024, 02:28:29 PMwould you prefer speed with dropsies of a sure-handed 4.5 - 4.6 runner? As long as they catch the catchable balls and break-up possible INT's, I'm happy. Seeing the return of Homer Jones however would make my day!!!!Most of the elite Wrs of the past 2 decades ran a 4.5.
Quote from: GloryDays on May 06, 2024, 11:05:17 PMWith his supporting cast it illudes to great ability, if not brilliance.uh huh
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 05, 2024, 09:28:18 AMIf they protect Jones and he has time in the pocket, he will put up top 10-12 QB stats. I'm more optimistic of the Running attack than most of you here although it may be a drop off from Barkley. Can they protect him? They brought in a decent crop of veteran Linemen.I agree the running game will be better with a rotation of backs that run forwards.
The bottom line is that there will be injuries and that Oline Depth concerns me. And while Jones can win games healthy, he would be foolish as they would to incorporate running plays with him. Jones also folds against good teams and in big moments.
Quote from: sxdxca38 on May 04, 2024, 06:40:43 PMIt is generally not good to attack or put down a poster and then say "did you bother to research your own question? clearly not"...You asked everyone to "Go and look up the offensive line rankings Tom Brady and Eli Manning both played with in the prime of their careers. It is no coincidence that both had elite level line play to give them time to dissect a defense."
And then after doing so provide only one year, that is right, just one year (2011) of Eli Mannings fifteen-year career (2004-2018) to make your point, and then build an entire world view around it.
This is what we call the logical fallacy of cherry picking, using just one example and then building an entire world view around it, which misleads yourself and those who listen to you.
But this isn't the first time you have done this, you have a built-up history of this kind of behavior.
So let us begin to expose the faulty line of reasoning.
Has Eli Manning really played behind a terrible offensive line like "Kingm56" has claimed? Well, what do the facts actually show?
New York Giants offensive line rankings
2005 - ranked 4th best in the NFL
Link
2007 - The 2007 offensive line was one of the best in the league, if not the best. It was also completely healthy. Snee was a dominant player, and O'Hara and Seubert were excellent. McKenzie was one of the league's best right tackles and Diehl did an adequate job on the left side.
https://www.bigblueview.com/2012/6/20/3099072/2007-giants-vs-2011-giants-comparing-super-bowl-champs-offensive-lines
2008 - ranked #1
link
2009 - Considered the best offensive line in the league
link
So, I have just shown four years where Eli Manning played behind one of the best offensive lines in the NFL, and I haven't even begun to go through 2010-2018, but later I will.
In 2011, the only year that you shared, what you failed to bring out, was that he had three elite WR's to help him out, in Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, and Mario Manningham.
Cruz took a 9 yard out and ran it for 99 yards against the Jets for a TD. He did the same thing with a 7 yard out for 74 yards against the cowboys.
So, before you attack or attempt to put down another poster, which really isn't tolerated here, I would encourage you in the future, if you really want to know the correct answer to something, and to be taken seriously, it is best to look at all the years and all the data, to come to a proper conclusion, instead of only using one of Eli Mannings years.
Quote from: kingm56 on May 04, 2024, 07:22:43 AMI'll grant you that point; however, that's not the point being discussed here. The point was made that high-performing Oline(s) were the most critical component to Eli's and Brady's success, during thier primes. Clearly, that statement is factually false.Great stuff as usual king 👊
BTW, Eli was fairly consistent between 2008 and 15, regardless of his oline rankings:
2008* 27 NYG QB 16 289 479 60.3 3238 21 10 86.4 66.9 PB
2009 28 NYG QB 16 317 509 62.3 4021 27 14 93.1 71.7
2010 29 NYG QB 16 339 539 62.9 4002 31 25 85.3 57.7
2011* 30 NYG QB 16 359 589 61 4933 29 16 92.9 64.2 AP CPoY-6, PB
2012* 31 NYG QB 16 321 536 59.9 3948 26 15 87.2 67 PB
2013 32 NYG QB 16 317 551 57.5 3818 18 27 69.4 38.6
2014 33 NYG QB 16 379 601 63.1 4410 30 14 92.1 61
2015* 34 NYG QB 16 387 618 62.6 4432 35 14 93.6 57.9 PB
Age clearly caught up with him during the 2016+ seasons...
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 04, 2024, 08:46:22 AMYes, but it's frustrating to hear fans talk like Jones has been put in a normal NFL QB situation. Jones has had shortcomings; like any QB (potentially more), Jones has shortcomings. It's just frustrating that some fans seem not to acknowledge the terrible (and it's really been some of the worst in the NFL) support he has received in his NFL career.But that's what happens when Qbs go to a bad team, they either rise above it or they don't. I don't hear anyone going to bat for Evan Neal or any other offensive player that have equally been failed by being on a team with Daniel Jones, but it's ok for them to all be used as an excuse for him. A 6th year player who still puts up advanced stats like a backup in year 6. Just wild that some can't see Jones is a huge reason for the bad offense.
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 03, 2024, 05:24:30 PMI listed actual historic accomplishments by DJ. Most reasonable people would consider a historic accomplishment (against a league with a 100+ year history) as "flashes of brilliance". In what way did what you just say negate the point I made?All of those accomplishments you listed happened as a rookie besides the coming back against a horrible Arizona team. Most of the people he was listed with outside Peyton and Russell haven't exactly taken the league by storm.