Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: katkavage on April 10, 2024, 08:09:52 PM33 years ago. A different era. And, like I said earlier there were exceptions when another player besides QB were so dominant. The Giants had one of those players on that team. LT. But the reality is, it's a QB-centric league now. More so than ever before.

I'm just not feeling that the QB's in this draft are worth giving up picks for. I've said it before, none of them may prove to be better than what you already have. To invest draft capital to take one, the FO needs be in "love" with the guy.

Quote from: katkavage on April 10, 2024, 06:41:16 PMWhen?

Hostetler 1991

Quote from: katkavage on April 10, 2024, 05:10:10 PMIf you are convincedhe is your guy

If you are that convinced then go for it.  But, I don't think that is the case.

Quote from: katkavage on April 10, 2024, 04:28:54 PMGetting your QB is worth at least four position players. He is that important to the success of your team.

I don't quite get the correlation, but of course the QB is important.  You can win with a good cast of characters and an average QB. We have done it.

Quote from: ozzie on April 10, 2024, 02:26:11 PMI agree that QB is without a doubt, the most important position on the team. I don't, however, think that you need to have an "Elite" QB to be successful.
Everyone wants a "Mahomes", but let's face it, that's not gonna happen. If you can get one, by all means, go get him, but I think Rich's list proved you can be successful without the best of the best at QB.
I believe building a good, solid, all around team with a solid QB is a more sustainable way to be consistently good, than an having an elite QB with less that average players around him.
I also think that teams do both themselves and the QB's a disservice by not being patient enough with them and letting them develop.
So, my answer to the original question is, No, I don't think there is a shortage of QB's, I think there are too many teams looking for short-cuts to success and believing you have to have an "Elite" QB to win.

There are no shortcuts to building a SB caliber team.  It take a bunch of parts working together and only one of them is the QB.  That's why in this draft we need to focus on building the team.  We need as many draft picks as we can get AND we need our front office to have an A+ draft.  I'm not so sure any one of the QB's in this draft will become "elite".

I don't want any of the QB's or ALT at 6.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 29, 2024, 06:49:30 PMFeels like a sensible trade for both teams. The Jets are all-in on the present, while the Eagles get to move on from an expensive player who is pushing 30 and build their draft capital.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 30, 2024, 06:45:26 AMReddick has something like a $16mm cap hit this year, and then we'd have to sign him as a 30 year old after this year for it to have been worthwhile. I don't feel like we were in a position to do that on top of the O line adds and the Burns contract.

Eagles have lots of picks, watch them move up on draft day.

In answer to this specific question "Do you feel Daniel Jones can win with the Giants, if we build the right team around him?". I say definitely yes!

But, it goes much deeper than that simple question.

  For the next 5 years can he stay on the field? Given his injury track record, I think the FO needs to protect themselves here and draft the next Giants QB. Probably not this year, or at least not in the early rounds, because you are needing to "build the right team around" DJ. You made that investment in him.

The real issue I see for the future of this team is that you cannot afford to swing and miss in this draft. We have to strike gold this draft or we will be looking at a few more down years. I think you need an A or A+ draft.
 

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 28, 2024, 06:01:04 PMHaving a macro vision about where you're trying to go as an organization you call "silly", but I call it responsible stewardship of an NFL franchise. Simply put, if you're not going to sign a player (or make a serious effort to) in the upcoming offseason, it behooves you to try to get what you can for the player prior to the trade deadline, rather than let him walk away for nothing.


The Giants were 2-6 at the deadline. They probably weren't going to sign Barkley. They definitely weren't going to tag him, and they probably weren't going to sign him. Their $40mm a year starting QB was done for the season. The season was clearly over, insofar as them having any chance of contending or even realistically squeaking into the playoffs as a bottom seed and getting destroyed in the first round. That was the situation they were in.

Nobody said anything about "quitting" other than you. You still field a roster and expect the players you put on the field to give their absolute best and try to win. But you don't sit on impending UFAs you don't seriously intend to sign or tag, when you can get a quality asset for them. You can call that "quitting" if you want to, but I call it being responsible. The team was 2-6 and playing with a backup QB. Did you seriously regard them as having a chance of making a run in the NFC playoffs in January?

This is a loaded draft. Are you telling me you wouldn't have rather had an extra second or third round type pick in this draft for Barkley, considering we didn't make any real effort to sign him (and didn't tag him)? Why was that smart? What exactly did that do for the franchise?

I believe they wanted to sign Barkley, but at their price. That is responsible stewardship. I think they were surprised that they couldn't.

I don't believe at 2-6 we were done. I don't know what would have gotten us into the playoffs, but you keep playing and trying until you can't. You owe it to your players and to all the other teams.

If you are not trying to win then the only thing you're doing is QUITTING.

Look, you have your opinion and I have mine.  Better to say that we agree to disagree on this point. No harm no foul.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 28, 2024, 03:57:11 PMTrading away a player you're almost certainly not going to sign in the middle of a lost season, so that you can acquire draft capital in a talent-loaded draft and improve your franchise for the longer term is not "giving up." It's doing what is best for your franchise. You can't only live in the moment and care about the very short run when you're running an organization with lofty longer term goals. That's what they clearly did here. I don't buy that they were planning on putting in a big effort towards signing him. Maybe Mara was hoping they would, but I don't buy that Schoen felt that way.

I think not trying to win because you THINK you will have some better position in the draft that's many months away is sending the wrong message to the team. You are asking these guys to put their health on the line and not try to not win? Silly. There are no guarantees that your better draft position will get you an impact player. I'd still like to know at what point in the season do you decide to tell your players you are going to throw in the towel?

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 27, 2024, 07:51:51 PMDoes "still trying to win" mean he thought they might make the playoffs?

"Still trying to win" for the sake of winning when you know you have zero chance of actually contending and almost zero chance of the playoffs, instead of investing in your future during a throwaway season, sounds so absurdly foolish.

Also if what he said is true, why did they trade Leo?

Makes no sense.

No sense playing the game if you're not playing to win. If you are going to give up, at what point should you tell the players that you are giving up? 2-6 after 8 games?

Didn't the Bears jump in front of the Giants to draft Floyd?

Quote from: President Rick on March 01, 2024, 12:40:04 PMIF mccarthy is qb#4 in this draft, then where does that place him if you are committed to taking the best player available [albeit in a position of some to high need] with pick #6??????????????

that sounds like a real long shot IMO.  I'd go OL or a top 3 WR at pick 6 and look for a backup qb in FA or in round 2.

I agree, except I wouldn't take o lineman at 6 unless an it was a lt. I want an impact player at 6. WR, Edge, CB....

Quote from: kingm56 on February 29, 2024, 05:14:34 PMAre you happy the Giants traded for Eli Manning?   

Of course, but that was a draft day trade.

If 69% of the 1st round QB's fail, why would you want to trade away the farm to move up and pick one.  Doesn't that compound your mistake?