Dan and Nick break down the draft profile of Rome Odunze, the wide receiver out of Washington, and as you can tell from the title of this show -- he could be a great fit for this Brian Daboll offense. Both Dan and Nick break down exactly why they appreciate his skill set, referencing the tape first and foremost, advanced stats, raw stats, the variations in his route running, and how he translates to the NFL speed and rules. Finally, they discuss the big picture and why he's a player that would complement the New York Giants well at 6.
I love Odunze, but this regime seems to love smaller quicker WRs. Odunze would have had a great career in a Coughlin-Gilbride offense.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on April 04, 2024, 09:46:01 AMI love Odunze, but this regime seems to love smaller quicker WRs. Odunze would have had a great career in a Coughlin-Gilbride offense.
Their love of smaller and quicker WRs seems like a plus in terms of the Giants drafting him. Teams do well to have a diverse skill set in their receiver room and Odunze's size and strength would be a good compliment.
Great point by Dan near the end when he says that DJ has to stop waiting for the receiver is open to throw the ball and rely on the receiver to make a play. Of course, it probably has a lot to do with DJ's insecurities that come from being sacked and throwing so many interceptions early on, and being told he cannot throw any more interceptions to stay in the NFL
Odunze is my favourite WR fit for us as I think he is the highest character/work ethic guy and has a really high floor: good technique, tidy routes/finds space in zones, great hands, great body control/wins contested catches, good speed, great blocker. IMO he is the best complement to what we have where I see some overlap for Nabers with Robinson and Hyatt in terms of best use. I also continue to have reservations about Nabers maturity. Tony Pauline on the recent Giants podcast with Schmeelk only reinforced that concern.
Day two I really like Ricky Pearsall for his hands, ability to find space and body control/contested catches. He's a much better athlete than people expect (this white guy can jump!).
If you really want to have some fun, you can pair him with his teammate at Washington in Round 2.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/2024-nfl-draft-espn-releases-qb-mock-draft-pick-team-predictions-for-12-quarterbacks/ar-BB1l50iI?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=da36a9a8787d426aa4965b97edaa05f9&ei=26
Quote from: bamagiantfan on April 04, 2024, 01:28:42 PMIf you really want to have some fun, you can pair him with his teammate at Washington in Round 2.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/2024-nfl-draft-espn-releases-qb-mock-draft-pick-team-predictions-for-12-quarterbacks/ar-BB1l50iI?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=da36a9a8787d426aa4965b97edaa05f9&ei=26
I said that exact same thing. It would be a Burrow Chase thing
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=69466.msg946925#msg946925
Odunze would prosper on the Giants and be a serious playmaker once the team finds a QB.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 04, 2024, 09:52:25 AMTheir love of smaller and quicker WRs seems like a plus in terms of the Giants drafting him. Teams do well to have a diverse skill set in their receiver room and Odunze's size and strength would be a good compliment.
I couldn't agree more
Guys - please think about this:
Option 1
Draft Malik Nabers - as he has components of both slot and X, make him the flanker (Z) as that incorporates both what a slot does with quick moves and slants/cuts as well as X like deep ball sideline WR. Commit to Hyatt as the sideline X with his speed. Remember he played outside the hashmarks largely at Tennessee and has great hands. Also you dont have to. E huge to be an X. OBJ was an X at only 5'11" but he had good release moves abd great hands.
Option 2 - draft Odunze to make him the clear X. He has less wiggle and may be stiffer so he is more strictly the X. Hyatt plays the Z but must improve his route running as Z demands kore precision than X in routes.
Not sure which option I like more.
Quote from: Philosophers on April 04, 2024, 01:58:44 PMGuys - please think about this:
Option 1
Draft Malik Nabers - as he has components of both slot and X, make him the flanker (Z) as that incorporates both what a slot does with quick moves and slants/cuts as well as X like deep ball sideline WR. Commit to Hyatt as the sideline X with his speed. Remember he played outside the hashmarks largely at Tennessee and has great hands. Also you dont have to. E huge to be an X. OBJ was an X at only 5'11" but he had good release moves abd great hands.
Option 2 - draft Odunze to make him the clear X. He has less wiggle and may be stiffer so he is more strictly the X. Hyatt plays the Z but must improve his route running as Z demands kore precision than X in routes.
Not sure which option I like more.
Consider Naber's arrest for carrying a concealed gun in New Orleans and the comments made by
@londonblue (see further up the posts). Odunze is a team captain and a high-character guy. The opposite of some of the more mercurial WRs the Giants have drafted in round one like OBJ and Toney
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 04, 2024, 02:01:16 PMConsider Naber's arrest for carrying a concealed gun in New Orleans and the comments made by @londonblue (see further up the posts). Odunze is a team captain and a high-character guy. The opposite of some of the more mercurial WRs the Giants have drafted in round one like OBJ and Toney
If not Nabers Rich then substitute out another prospect with Nabers size/wiggle/YAC for Option 1 and consider both options.
Quote from: Philosophers on April 04, 2024, 02:13:29 PMIf not Nabers Rich then substitute out another prospect with Nabers size/wiggle/YAC for Option 1 and consider both options.
Nabers has elite traits, I don't think they can be swapped out with another prospect. If he didn't have exceptional and very special skills as a receiver I wouldn't be calling for caution with Nabers I would be pounding the table to avoid him at all costs
Odunze: ideal fit for the Giants? Yes!
Cheers!
So, I had heard during the last few months that there were some concerns about Odunze's ability to separate and that despite his size it could limit him in the NFL. A pre-draft comparison to another highly thought of receiver - Laquan Treadwell - was made. Does anyone have any concerns about that? I have seen plenty of highlights but have not seen Odunze play.
Quote from: bamagiantfan on April 04, 2024, 02:34:22 PMSo, I had heard during the last few months that there were some concerns about Odunze's ability to separate and that despite his size it could limit him in the NFL. A pre-draft comparison to another highly thought of receiver - Laquan Treadwell - was made. Does anyone have any concerns about that? I have seen plenty of highlights but have not seen Odunze play.
Treadwell boasted similar measurables. Separation is about attitude - ability to win in a handfighting contest. To evaluate Odunze in separation you have to know more about his personality then watch film. Big guys dint automatically separate.
Quote from: bamagiantfan on April 04, 2024, 02:34:22 PMSo, I had heard during the last few months that there were some concerns about Odunze's ability to separate and that despite his size it could limit him in the NFL. A pre-draft comparison to another highly thought of receiver - Laquan Treadwell - was made. Does anyone have any concerns about that? I have seen plenty of highlights but have not seen Odunze play.
Treadwell ran a 4.64 sec 40
Odunze ran a 4.45 sec 40
I do not see the similarity.
Plus, on Reddit, someone posted the percentage of catches that are contested—a player with a high percentage of targets that were contested struggles to get open. Here are the numbers for the top 3 WRs
Nabers- 23.6%
Odunze- 20%
MHJ- 23.6%
I think that because Odunze has an impressive 75% contested catch rate, some people mistakenly assume that he struggled to get open.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/1adyxq0/2024_draft_class_wrs_metrics/
Quote from: bamagiantfan on April 04, 2024, 02:34:22 PMSo, I had heard during the last few months that there were some concerns about Odunze's ability to separate and that despite his size it could limit him in the NFL. A pre-draft comparison to another highly thought of receiver - Laquan Treadwell - was made. Does anyone have any concerns about that? I have seen plenty of highlights but have not seen Odunze play.
I watched 4 games of his live. Two of them were playoff games. I didn't see anything that made me wonder if he could separate. Now that's not all the games and when you are watching live its not like they show you the receiver that didn't get the ball, so there could be issues.
In addition all of his measurables at the combine, including the 3-cone drill point to NFL level quickness and burst.
Compared to all the WRs that participated at the combine here is where he performed:
- Tied for 4th best 10 yard split 1.52 secs (best was 1.49)
- Tied for 11th in vertical jump with 39" (best was 42.5)
- Tied for 17 in the broad jump with 10'4" (best was 11'4", Tied with Ladd McConkey)
- 4th in 3-cone drill with a 6.88 (best was 6.64)
I think I saw on tape the ability to separate, and the combine showed some consistency with that.
Quote from: bamagiantfan on April 04, 2024, 02:34:22 PMSo, I had heard during the last few months that there were some concerns about Odunze's ability to separate and that despite his size it could limit him in the NFL. A pre-draft comparison to another highly thought of receiver - Laquan Treadwell - was made. Does anyone have any concerns about that? I have seen plenty of highlights but have not seen Odunze play.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHs1u00WMAE7F9n?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://i0.wp.com/ras.football/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/laquon-treadwell-ras-12791.png?resize=806%2C522&ssl=1)
Quote from: uconnjack8 on April 04, 2024, 09:46:01 AMI love Odunze, but this regime seems to love smaller quicker WRs. Odunze would have had a great career in a Coughlin-Gilbride offense.
Maybe its time for a change then. cause it aint working.
Quote from: bamagiantfan on April 04, 2024, 02:34:22 PMSo, I had heard during the last few months that there were some concerns about Odunze's ability to separate and that despite his size it could limit him in the NFL. A pre-draft comparison to another highly thought of receiver - Laquan Treadwell - was made. Does anyone have any concerns about that? I have seen plenty of highlights but have not seen Odunze play.
I have seen him play, and have no such concern. I can imagine it as a smokescreen rather than as a fire.
In any case, in 15 games last season he had 92 Receptions for 1640 Yards 17.8 Av with 13 TDs including the National Championship Semi-final against UT where he caught 6 for 125 Yds with a Long of 52, and in the Championship against Michigan's vaunted Defense, he caught 5 for 87 with a Long of 44. Those numbers don't suggest a separation problem- not to me, anyway.
Cheers!
I do have some concerns about Odunze's separation if Daniel Jones is the QB because he will hardly ever see the ball. I don't have to tell most of you here that he's a possession Receiver with flypaper hands. If a Corner was on his hip, he was open. He has short arms, so his horizontal radius is not what his vertical is. He does run crisp underneath routes and gets open along the sidelines well. under 20 yards, he finds a way to get open, especially in Zone coverage that he reads well. He's going to be that YAC Guy who makes the tough catches in big situations. The best match for him would be a QB who isn't afraid to drill in it tight windows. Penix was that guy.
Quote from: Painter on April 04, 2024, 03:20:59 PMI have seen him play, and have no such concern. I can imagine it as a smokescreen rather than as a fire.
In any case, in 15 games last season he had 92 Receptions for 1640 Yards 17.8 Av with 13 TDs including the National Championship Semi-final against UT where he caught 6 for 125 Yds with a Long of 52, and in the Championship against Michigan's vaunted Defense, he caught 5 for 87 with a Long of 44. Those numbers don't suggest a separation problem- not to me, anyway.
Cheers!
He had one long catch for something like 40 yards but he was held quiet for everything else with 4 catches for 40 yards. He didnt dominate at all in the championship game.
Quote from: Philosophers on April 04, 2024, 03:56:00 PMHe had one long catch for something like 40 yards but he was held quiet for everything else with 4 catches for 40 yards. He didnt dominate at all in the championship game.
Rome was open several times, Penix just didn't see him.
Is Odunze faster than Bowers. To my untrained eye, on the field, Bowers seemed faster. I'm probably wrong because Bowers is probably 20 lbs. heavier.
Thanks Ed. He seems to chew up zones but against man I can see where the concerns are coming from. Still, he looks like a beast after he gets the ball.
Quote from: bamagiantfan on April 04, 2024, 04:38:28 PM
Thanks Ed. He seems to chew up zones but against man I can see where the concerns are coming from. Still, he looks like a beast after he gets the ball.
Yes, he is a beast after catch. Kind of like a smaller version of a TE. I'm wondering if he could additionally function as an H-Back or utilized as the Niners use Deebo in some sets. I would think he would be very effective in Routes out of the Backfield or Set Back and in a Pitch Out. I think JJ, Daniels or Drake would be a great combination with him. Especially JJ and Daniels.
I wonder if those "concerns" were being expressed by team(s) hoping he'd drop to them?
Quote from: Ed Vette on April 04, 2024, 04:49:36 PMYes, he is a beast after catch. Kind of like a smaller version of a TE. I'm wondering if he could additionally function as an H-Back or utilized as the Niners use Deebo in some sets. I would think he would be very effective in Routes out of the Backfield or Set Back and in a Pitch Out. I think JJ, Daniels or Drake would be a great combination with him. Especially JJ and Daniels.
He has to have a viable QB to throw to him. So drafting Odunze is nice but means little in terms of winning games until he is paired with a QB with skills.
Brian Thomas is best of Nabers and Odunze. Fast and twitchy like Nabers and big like Odunze. Just needs more seasoning
Yes hut that is true
Quote from: sooners56 on April 04, 2024, 04:06:11 PMRome was open several times, Penix just didn't see him.
Quote from: sooners56 on April 04, 2024, 04:06:11 PMRome was open several times, Penix just didn't see him.
Penix was being chased all game. Was it surprising?
Quote from: Philosophers on April 04, 2024, 03:56:00 PMHe had one long catch for something like 40 yards but he was held quiet for everything else with 4 catches for 40 yards. He didnt dominate at all in the championship game.
And exactly who did dominate other than Michigan's running game and Dline pass rush, Joseph? Certainly, not Michael Penix who went 27 for 51 on mostly heavily pressured short passes that included a couple of INTs and several misses to a wide open Odunze.Cheers!
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 04, 2024, 09:09:45 AMDan and Nick break down the draft profile of Rome Odunze, the wide receiver out of Washington, and as you can tell from the title of this show -- he could be a great fit for this Brian Daboll offense. Both Dan and Nick break down exactly why they appreciate his skill set, referencing the tape first and foremost, advanced stats, raw stats, the variations in his route running, and how he translates to the NFL speed and rules. Finally, they discuss the big picture and why he's a player that would complement the New York Giants well at 6.
Good video Rich, I would be happy with either guy. Odunze has the size, we have had a guy like this in a while. I would be happy with the pick
Quote from: Painter on April 04, 2024, 08:46:37 PMAnd exactly who did dominate other than Michigan's running game and Dline pass rush, Joseph? Certainly, not Michael Penix who went 27 for 51 on mostly heavily pressured short passes that included a couple of INTs and several misses to a wide open Odunze.
Cheers!
Larry - The argument was about the role Odunze played in the game. It was not dominance. Think you know that and just feel like stirring something up.
Here is what Bruce Feldman heard from college coaches about him:
The Coaching Intel
"(He is) as good as we've faced (in two decades as a college coach). Unbelievable with the ball in the air. Fantastic hands. Very good route runner. Good size. Good competitor. He is as good at tracking the ball as I've ever seen. That 50-50 ball, he had to have been 85 percent or better at those."
"He can play inside or outside and eat you up. He's very polished and has a lot in his bag. He makes great adjustments and is very, very strong. He's the alpha receiver who bullies guys whenever there's a contested catch. I know people talked a lot about Marvin Harrison and we never played him, but if he's better than this guy, man, that's really saying something."
https://theathletic.com/5380858/2024/04/04/nfl-mock-draft-2024-prospect-source-insight-williams-mccarthy/
Quote from: londonblue on April 04, 2024, 11:42:51 AMOdunze is my favourite WR fit for us as I think he is the highest character/work ethic guy and has a really high floor: good technique, tidy routes/finds space in zones, great hands, great body control/wins contested catches, good speed, great blocker. IMO he is the best complement to what we have where I see some overlap for Nabers with Robinson and Hyatt in terms of best use. I also continue to have reservations about Nabers maturity. Tony Pauline on the recent Giants podcast with Schmeelk only reinforced that concern.
Day two I really like Ricky Pearsall for his hands, ability to find space and body control/contested catches. He's a much better athlete than people expect (this white guy can jump!).
Here is exactly what Tony Pauline said about Nabers
(https://i.imgur.com/eXC0h1k.png)
https://www.sportskeeda.com/nfl/2024-nfl-draft-wr-prospects-tiers-why-marvin-harrison-jr-undisputed-1-malik-nabers-rome-odunze-draft-boards
with that info on Nabers, I think if it comes down to a decision between he and Odunze, its going to be Odunze.
Quote from: FL GMAN on April 04, 2024, 04:28:32 PMIs Odunze faster than Bowers. To my untrained eye, on the field, Bowers seemed faster. I'm probably wrong because Bowers is probably 20 lbs. heavier.
Bowers is in the 4.5s and Odunze is in the 4.4s. Bowers would be a worthy choice if Waller decides he is retiring. He is a nightmare cover. Too quick for LBs and Safeties and too big for CBs. Productive, smart, and hard-working. Some would not be happy with this pick, but after watching him shred Defenses in the SEC for years, I would have no complaint.
The WR pool is so deep that if the Giants drafted Bowers at 6, they could still get an X WR1 in round 2 or 3. Now they'd have two additional weapons on offense. Add a mid-late round RB and their offense just got more talented.
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
There's not a safer pick in the top 10 of the #NFLDraft than Rome Odunze. Star player, clean character evaluations. https://nypost.com/2024/04/12/sports/rome-odunzes-immense-talent-could-make-him-next-great-ny-receiver/
How would he fare with #Giants or #Jets? I asked his coach.
"He will be eating New York out of his hands because he truly is a person who can handle all types,. There's a brute toughness to New York, and Rome has that. There's also the glitz and glam. Guess what? He's going to make those plays, too."
https://x.com/rydunleavy/status/1778991373254803601
Ia Odunze a big WR who generates consistent YAC and breaks away or does he make the catch then goes down?
The latter is Isiah Hodgins. We dint need another of that.
Quote from: Philosophers on April 13, 2024, 08:54:57 AMIa Odunze a big WR who generates consistent YAC and breaks away or does he make the catch then goes down?
The latter is Isiah Hodgins. We dint need another of that.
Thanks Ed. Do you know how that YAC measures against say Nabers or Harrison?
Quote from: Philosophers on April 13, 2024, 09:49:34 AMThanks Ed. Do you know how that YAC measures against say Nabers or Harrison?
Nabers
Quote from: Philosophers on April 13, 2024, 09:49:34 AMThanks Ed. Do you know how that YAC measures against say Nabers or Harrison?
MHJ
Quote from: Philosophers on April 13, 2024, 08:54:57 AMIa Odunze a big WR who generates consistent YAC and breaks away or does he make the catch then goes down?
The latter is Isiah Hodgins. We dint need another of that.
The problem with YAC stats is they don't account for route concept (some routes generate more YAC than others). On the other hand, athleticism can be a good indicator of the ability to generate YAC
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHs1u00WMAE7F9n?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://i0.wp.com/ras.football/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Isaiah-Hodgins-RAS-20194.png?w=806&ssl=1)
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 13, 2024, 10:14:17 AMThe problem with YAC stats is they don't account for route concept (some routes generate more YAC than others). On the other hand, athleticism can be a good indicator of the ability to generate YAC
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHs1u00WMAE7F9n?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://i0.wp.com/ras.football/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Isaiah-Hodgins-RAS-20194.png?w=806&ssl=1)
[/quote Redfaced ]
Did Odunze do the Short Shuttle and 3 Cone.
@Ed Vette I found one that included that
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHtewe-XYAAKmuR?format=jpg&name=small)
https://x.com/RandyMueller_/status/1779167199606796316
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 13, 2024, 10:29:34 AM@Ed Vette
I found one that included that
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHtewe-XYAAKmuR?format=jpg&name=small)
Interesting this one shows his 10 yard split as what's listed on NFL.com, the other one had him at 1.58