Big Blue Huddle

While bad decisions have certainly been made, I think the Giants have been arguably one of the unluckiest teams in the league.

Consider:

2010-  In the third round, the Giants draft a promising safety and special teamer, Chad Jones.  He has an off-season auto accident and never fully recovers.  Plays some snaps but as a shadow of his former self.

2015-  Giants star edge rusher JPP mangles hand in fireworks accident.  Eventually returns, but isn't quite the player he had been

2020-  Giants first-round cornerback Deandre Baker arrested for armed robbery.   He is eventually found innocent, but not before the Giants cut him.

2014-  Promising first-round running back David Wilson found to have stenosis in his neck and has to retire from football before his rookie contract is even finished

2016-  a last-minute video pushes Laramy Tunsil off many draft boards.  This left the Giants scrambling and they ended up drafting Eli Apple

2015- Legal questions kept La'el Collins (solid O-line prospect) from being drafted in round one.  This pushes the Giants to take Ereck Flowers instead.  Worse, Collins ends up signing as a free agent with Dallas essentially giving the Cowboys a free extra first-round pick.

Consider some of the drafted players with healthy college careers but became injury messes in the NFL

Saquon Barkley
Evan Neal
Daniel Jones
Joshua Ezeudu
Azeez Ojulari
Evan Engram
Weston Richburg
Justin Pugh
Shane Lemieux
Aaron Robinson

Guys whose careers were cut short by injury

Hakeem Nicks
Terrell Thomas
Jay Bromley
Owamagbe Odighizuwa (mental illness)
Sterling Shepard

Even OBJ suffered a major injury.

Have I missed any other bad luck issues the Giants have had the last decade or so?

How Daniel Jones Won The NFL Draft
NFL DRAFT VIDEOS 4/30/24

Chase Daniel and Trey Wingo discuss the New York Giants' 2024 NFL Draft class and explain why QB Daniel Jones is the player who 'won' the weekend.

https://www.the33rdteam.com/how-daniel-jones-won-the-nfl-draft/

https://x.com/The33rdTeamFB/status/1786542697039478949

Quote from: Stringer Bell on May 04, 2024, 11:41:00 AMI did. What does that have to do with a team's willingness to give up draft picks AND pay him?

The Giants got a 2nd round pick for Leonard Williams.  Do you honestly believe they couldn't get a 3rd or 4th for Barkley?

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on May 04, 2024, 11:59:19 AMTo Mighty's point some think finding a special talent at a position like QB is harder than finding a 'good enough' coach to coach him.

So I think there is some truth in what everyone is asserting here.

From what I have seen, the Giants have struggled just as much to find a proper replacement for Tom Coughlin as they have trying to replace Eli Manning (perhaps even more so)

Quote from: Stringer Bell on May 04, 2024, 11:42:59 AMThis is one of the biggest blind spots for arm chair GMs. There being a market for someone jn getting a contract and there being a market for someone willing to trade draft picks and pay a guy are 2 completely different things.

Are you suggesting you are coming from the perspective of an actual or former NFL GM? 


A player like Barkley had value for a team in the playoff hunt looking to get an edge by boosting their running game down the home stretch

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 04, 2024, 11:38:19 AMThe best players get paid a lot more than the best coaches, and, unlike coaches, players are bound by a salary cap so it's even harder to pay them than it is coaches.

Could this discrepancy between player and coach pay be because players are more valuable, or is it because the people who run NFL teams and have spent their whole careers and almost their whole lives deeply involved in this sport are all lost and just don't get it?

I was taught price was determined by supply and demand, not by the perceived "value" of the goods or service

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 04, 2024, 11:18:54 AMThere is nothing to resolve if you agree that players are more important than coaches overall. That's all I am saying. If you think coaches are more important than players, or even that the two are equal, then
we can mutually respectfully agree to disagree.

I am afraid I can't agree with your assertion. If I were to put it in simple terms of who is more important, coaches or talent, I would put it at about even. Still, I think to appreciate the situation fully, it's important to appreciate the interaction between coaching and talent. Great coaching will make their talent look better than it is through superior player development and putting players in a position to thrive (as well as optimal motivation), and vice versa for poor coaching.

https://x.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1786773298220556667

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 04, 2024, 11:10:47 AMOBJ is a bit of a journeyman these days.

Every season, there seems to be a new bumper crop of WR prospects. That steady stream of young and cheap talent suppresses the market for aging veterans who have lost a step.

https://x.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1786774675705548871

Quote from: kingm56 on May 04, 2024, 10:59:22 AMwhy did both the OC and HC have immense success in KC and Buff

Because both the Chiefs and the Bills have immensely more talented rosters from top to bottom.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 04, 2024, 10:53:09 AMIn my opinion, QBs (and the rest of their offenses) tend to make OCs - not the other way around. Daboll himself is a good example. He had been an OC in numerous places prior to Buffalo and was never considered anything noteworthy until he got Josh Allen. Every other OC job he had before that led to him being fired. After spending a few years with Josh Allen as the OC, he was suddenly the hottest candidate for a head coaching job in the league. How come that never happened after any of his prior OC stints?

Please don't misconstrue the above as a claim on my part that some OCs are not better than others. I am not saying that at all and don't think that. Clearly some are very good, some are very bad, and many are somewhere in between. All I am saying is the guys on the field matter more than the guy with the headset. And the final numerical arbiter of value (compensation) duly reflects that.

If you really want to appreciate the importance of the OC in the grand scheme of things, just compare the 2022 Eagles offense versus the 2023 Eagles offense.  Under one OC in 2022, they were 3rd in both points and yards.  With essentially the same roster but a new OC, that unit was ranked 7th in points and yards under their new OC.

Still, the debate over the relative importance of coaching versus talent has been going on since football was first invented.  So I doubt we will resolve the issue now.

Do you agree with their ranking or assessment?


31) New York Giants
Daniel Jones, rehabbing from the torn ACL that ended his 2023 campaign, may have to compete with free-agent addition Drew Lock to win the Giants' starting QB job. Whoever wins the gig will get to work with No. 6 overall pick Malik Nabers, New York's most explosive wide receiver since Odell Beckham Jr.

The Giants made a concerted effort to improve their offensive line during the offseason. But adding Nabers was somewhat offset by losing RB Saquon Barkley, and it's challenging to see much upside for Big Blue.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-offense-rankings/