Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 09:45:19 AMThe Giants have been run the same way for decades.  The GM is the ultimate decider, but the owner shares his views and opinions.  Frankly, considering that Mara grew up on Giants football, that doesn't seem like the worst thing.   The man learned football from greats like George Young, Bill Parcells, and Tom Coughlin.  It's not like he is some wealthy stockbroker who thinks his financial savvy easily translates to the football world.

I have heard people in the know fault Mara's loyalty, and I don't disagree.  Ronnie Barnes is the poster boy for people the team has kept past their sell-by-data.   Still, I hear far more unfair and unfounded criticism, in terms of conspiracy theories (I am not a fan of conspiracy theories), than he deserves.

I didn't like the Yankees owner as a person. But I liked the results. I'm a fan. All I want from the owner of the team I root for is results. Im not nor never will be his friend.

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 09:14:01 AMIt's amazing how, in some fans' eyes, John Mara has become this cartoon villain.  It's sort of like what we see league-wide with Rodger Goodell.   The reality is that Goodell suffers the wrath of much of the NFL fanbase, but in reality, he is just the face of the decision made by the owners.

If you want to hold Mara accountable for Gettleman and Joe Judge, that's reasonable.  However, the amount of wild conspiracy theories that are created around Mara and what he does as co-owner of the Giants is truly remarkable.

It's not a wild conspiracy to think that Mara was very much aware and in consultation with the GM on the first pick in the draft. And that the QB search was always a smokescreen. And that contract for Jones? Not done without consulting Mara? Please. He's not a cartoon villain. Just not a very good team owner in terms of success based on his own hirings to start with.

I would have been much more optimistic going forward if a QB was there for the future. As it is now, Giant fans are in limbo on that very important aspect of team building. I've repeatedly said that 2024 should not be looked at as anything but a bridge to the future. But without the QB of the future, we have to bump that down the road a year or two.

Quote from: Ed Vette on Today at 07:20:48 AMThe ones in the best situations would be Williams but the Bears have been following finding ways to hurt themselves. Let's see how his projection will perform.

Daniels but Washington is a hapless organization who also kill themselves and their QBs. They had RG3 and Cousins. Somehow they will find a way to wind up with Sam Hartman as their starting QB.

Nix is in a good place with one of the all time best Head Coaches who will build a program around Nix. This might be the best opportunity.

McCarthy is also surrounded by outstanding talent. But another team that has never quite put it together.

Maye and Penix? I feel sad for them.

Penix got royally screwed. It's too bad. I think he would have done very well with the Vikings or Denver. I have no idea what the Pats are putting together in terms of coaching staffs. I do know the team is as bad as Carolina, so the situation will be similar for Maye as it was for Young. 

Quote from: Ed Vette on Today at 06:24:55 AM"Linked to both North Carolina's Drake Maye and Michigan's J.J. McCarthy in the weeks leading up to the 2024 NFL Draft, many wondered if the New York Giants would make a move up for a quarterback in Round 1.

Despite the weeks of speculation that the front office was looking to find Daniel Jones' successor, ESPN's Adam Schefter said on Monday's "Pat McAfee Show" that the Giants were never really interested in a signal-caller at all but were actually trying to orchestrate their own perfect storm.

"I believe the Giants wanted Joe Alt to slide to them," Schefter said. "... I think some of this quarterback talk for the Giants might have been a little camouflage to try to get somebody like Minnesota to trade up because if they traded up to the Chargers spot at 5 and got J.J. McCarthy, Joe Alt would've slid right to the Giants' slot at No. 6 and that would have been ideal for a team that last year allowed its quarterbacks to be sacked 85 times."

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/insider_says_giants_interest_in_drafting_a_qb_was_a_smokescreen/s1_13132_40301605?

I don't know about Joe Alt, but I'm pretty sure, picking 6, they never were serious about a QB despite the blather of Mara and Schoen. If they were picking number 1 they would haven't had a choice and would have had to take Williams. Anything other than that, I think they would have traded out. It's all about saving face over the contract for Jones.

The schedule folks. Don't forget the schedule. In 2022 the schedule was easy. They played the AFC South. Last year they had to play the NFC West. Lost 3 out of four. This year they play the AFC North and NFC South. NFC South can go either way. Carolina is the only team as of now they would be favored against. In their division, they need to prove finally that they can beat Dallas, until they do, they are underdogs. Philly...we shall see which team shows up. Washington will be better. Don't count on the two easy wins. So go through the schedule. Of course there are injuries to other teams that change the dynamic. But right now, on paper, I don't see more than 7 wins. That's being generous.

Of course it is. It's still April. And we all are so objective after the draft.

Schoen is on the line with the QB as well. They are tied together (even though he never drafted him). If it goes bad for Jones, it reflects poorly on Schoen. While if it goes very good for him, Schoen shines.

I had to skip through the QB section. You lost me at "flashes of  brilliance." I must have missed those. I've seen some competent play, mostly against bad teams. Never seen any brilliance. The rest of the post is very accurate.

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on April 28, 2024, 02:50:28 PMI see a ton of negativity here. Giants have this uncanny tendency to do really well when the expectations are low. A lot has to fall right but I am not going into next season without at least some hope either.

In 2022 things went very right for them. But the schedule helped. They will have to go a lot "righter" with the teams they face in 2024.

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on April 28, 2024, 09:44:05 AMMaye initially dropped my temperature to frigid levels. I see a budding Allen/Herbert when I watch his tape. McCarthy proved to be smoke. Right or wrong, Giants felt Pats asking price was just too big. 

I was peeved to say the least but as reality set in , I took a hard look at what we have now post draft both players and the ball coaches.


What exactly are we left with at QB?  I try to look at common denominators between good play and bad play as much as possible to make a determination. Let's start at the beginning. Jones rookie year threw 24 TDs in just 12 games with pedestrian WRs. Shurmur was an above average offensive guy (who stunk as a HC) but route concepts had clear site lines and attacked multiple levels of the defense. Next couple years after, he had a hideous OC with that Garrett guy who only knew how to run hitches and curls all day. Basically all 5 years this kid not once had a receiver that could sniff a pro-bowl. The other common denominator was the offensive line was coached by a whos who of who not to hire as coaches. The only thing he had which was average or a smidge above was offensive coaching for a couple years. Most everything else is below to bottom barrell including numerous offensive lineman that were really
really just stinka-potumus at pass blocking.

I actually don't blame anyone of my blue feathered friends who has given up on him.  There are reasons why it could be argued the other way. However, I have also seen QBs when the cast around them improve be it coaches or players their performance substantially improves too. I want to have a glimmer of hope this upcoming season. 

So I'm kinda going from cup half empty with a crack at the bottom leaking to a cup half full  perspective.


This just might be the first darn time Daniel will have:

* A true what we believe to be potentially elite WR1
* An offensive line coach that has what seems to be excellent credentials (top 10-12 finishes with an average line with two different squads)
* An offensive line with numerous players that project well in pass blocking. AT, Runyons metrics in pass pro are excellent. Eluemunor as both an RG or RT projects at least as average. JMS he was supposed to be the top OC in the 2023 draft. Then we will see what Bracillo can come up with for the final spot.

I choose to be disappointed yes but also cautiously optimistic that we could see something positive maybe even significantly better with a WR1 and an OL that actually pass blocks.

Good post. You have to assess the schedule. As of today how many teams on that schedule will the Giants be favored?

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 28, 2024, 08:33:47 AMI liked Odunze but he was more the safe pick (high floor/lower ceiling).  I think Odunze's ceiling is occasional Pro Bowls, while Naber's ceiling is perennial All Pro

I'm only saying that if Nabers and Harrison were gone, they would take Odunze and not McCarthy. The Giants are a "safe" pick organization.

Looking at the teams they play this season, I picked mediocre, and that was being generous. Of course that is now and then will be then. They play the AFC North where all the teams have good QBs except Pittsburgh, but they have a good coach who overcomes other things and finds a way to always keep his team competitive. In their own division, they, unless Philly continues on their free form collapse from the end of last season, they will have a rough time. And Washington, now with a new QB and coach, won't be the easy two wins they have been the past few years. In the NFC South, only Carolina is a sure win. The other teams will be a struggle. I think they also play Minnesota, Seattle and the Colts. All could be wins. Do the math now and what do you come up with 5-7 wins tops. If teams lose key players everything changes, of course. But you asked now.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 28, 2024, 07:52:14 AMRich,

Let's say for the moment that the Giants' supposed heavy interest in Maye was in fact no more than a smoke screen, and they always wanted Nabers and didn't want any QB. How would putting that smoke screen out there increase their chances of getting Nabers exactly? It was never reported they were particularly interested in McCarthy. It was all about Maye. Once the Pats took Maye, I'm not sure why any smoke screen would have mattered or why the Giants' chances of landing Nabers were augmented.

If they were hell-bent on specifically getting Nabers at all costs, the smoke screens that would have made sense would have been feigning heavy interest in Odunze and/or pretending to be turned off by Nabers (as they allegedly did with Thibodeaux). I don't follow why feigning interest in Maye augments their chances of getting Nabers.

I believe the interest in Maye was genuine. I also think their inaction around restructuring Jones' contract in this offseason speaks volumes about where they stand on him long term at this point, so it makes sense that they would have potentially had interest in one or more of the QBs available. McCarthy just wasn't one of them.

I have no doubt that if Nabers was chosen before the Giants, they would have taken Odunze. They were never going to take McCarthy at 6.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on April 28, 2024, 02:49:27 AMI have my doubts whether Kraft was going to approve any trade out of #3 and Maye.  I don't think the pick we traded for Burns would have tipped the balance.

He wasn't.