https://x.com/RossTuckerPod/status/1768623194175639851?s=20
Well, I will be excited if Nabers is our man at Pick Six, but I'd take Harrison anyway. Three reasons.
First, he and his dad hardly ever missed a game. That (as Giants' fans know) is crucial. Compare our most recent 1st-round-drafted (and failed) WR, who just couldn't get ON the field. We know less about Nabers in general, and that's not a very good reason, but it matters to me.
We also know Harrison can play in cold weather. That is important, since Nabers has never done it. We just don't know how he'll react to getting hit in cold weather. Harrison has already proven it doesn't bother him one bit. It is a huge question-mark with Nabers (to me).
Last, Harrison's route-running involves a mental aspect of the game that all professional WR's must have. Those who come to the NFL as "one-trick ponies" don't last very long (same for basketball). Pro DB's always take away what you did in college, because they have seen you do it over and over again, on tape. Nabers has never had to run ALL the routes in his offense, and there's a question-mark in my mind about how hard he'll work to raise his game knowledge to the pro level (it's not a big question-mark but it's bigger than any question-mark concerning Harrison).
Bob
PS. I fully agree with Cosell, but if you can't get open, you can't get "the ball in your hands" (quoting Cosell). I have more confidence in Harrison being able to get open in the NFL (without special "scheming") than Nabers. Make no mistake, however... if Nabers is the Giants' pick I'll be very happy, just not ecstatic. lol
Nabers is an absolute monster. I have been very bullish on him for a while now. His ability to separate is lethal. Would I take him over Harrison? No, probably not, but I don't know that the gap is as huge as some make it out to be.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 24, 2024, 07:36:39 AM
Rich: I think Skinner did a great job. However... check out that highlight reel.
All his "routes" are college routes (essentially running in straight lines with a head fake).
MORE importantly, almost all those highlights involve the DB playing a mile off the line-of-scrimmage!!! In the NFL the DB's are good enough and fast enough to play him from the LOS... how will Nabers react? How will he cope? I DO like him but I worry about that aspect of the game also.
Bob
PS added. Concerning the few highlights where the DB started less-than-a-MILE (lol) off the line of scrimmage... in NONE of those cases was Nabers even TOUCHED by the DB. In ALL of them, the DB immediately began back-peddling at the snap. In the NFL, they get up in your grille and get their hands on you (until you get past the "legal" territory for hand contact). Remember what Mike Tyson said.... "EVERYBODY HAS A PLAN UNTIL THEY GET PUNCHED IN THE FACE. In the NFL, Nabers will get punched in the face.
Quote from: Bob In PA on March 24, 2024, 07:55:33 AMRich: I think Skinner did a great job. However... check out that highlight reel.
All his "routes" are college routes (mostly running in a straight line with a few head fakes).
MORE importantly, all those highlights involve the DB playing a mile off the line-of-scrimmage!!! In the NFL the DB's are good enough and fast enough to play him from the LOS... how will Nabers react? How will he cope? I DO like him but I worry about that aspect of the game also.
Bob
Marvin Harrison Jr. vs. Malik Nabers: Here's Who Is Better.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 24, 2024, 08:03:13 AMMarvin Harrison Jr. vs. Malik Nabers: Here's Who Is Better.
Rich: The one thing my posts have not mentioned about Nabers (but should have) is that his body movement is incredible. He can turn while running full-speed. Even Harrison is not as good as Nabers at that aspect of physical capability. Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on March 24, 2024, 08:23:29 AMRich: The one thing my posts have not mentioned about Nabers (but should have) is that his body movement is incredible. He can turn while running full-speed. Even Harrison is not as good as Nabers at that aspect of physical capability. Bob
Bob,
I am not saying they are similar, but the comparison between the Nabers vs. MHJ reminds me of the Manning vs. Leaf debate. Leaf was the more physically gifted, while Manning was the more refined.
One other thing I noticed is that Daniel underthrows a lot of his long passes. I lost count of how many times Nabers had to throttle back to catch the ball (often costing yards/TDs)
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 24, 2024, 08:27:00 AMBob,
I am not saying they are similar, but the comparison between the Nabers vs. MHJ reminds me of the Manning vs. Leaf debate. Leaf was the more physically gifted, while Manning was the more refined.
One other thing I noticed is that Daniel underthrows a lot of his long passes. I lost count of how many times Nabers had to throttle back to catch the ball (often costing yards/TDs)
Rich: I did notice that. I still haven't decided which guy made the other guy look good, but it seems to have been Nabers providing the "security blanket" for Daniels rather than the other way around. Bob
I think Brian Hartline at Ohio St is the best college WR coach in the country. He complemented Harrison's father perfectly in Junior's development. Junior is a Day 1 starting WR with lethality. Nabers will start Day 1 but he and a QB probably wont get on the same page maybe til mid-season. He wont run the NFL quality routes exactly the way the QB needs. He'll make some big plays early but I doubt he will early on be a volume WR.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 24, 2024, 10:05:45 AMI think Brian Hartline at Ohio St is the best college WR coach in the country. He complemented Harrison's father perfectly in Junior's development. Junior is a Day 1 starting WR with lethality. Nabers will start Day 1 but he and a QB probably wont get on the same page maybe til mid-season. He wont run the NFL quality routes exactly the way the QB needs. He'll make some big plays early but I doubt he will early on be a volume WR.
Phil: I agree but the Giants DO have Hyatt who (hopefully) will take a step up next season, both in terms of his own performance but also in terms of how much Jones, Lock and ? (if any) will trust him and focus on him. Yet one more thing (not mentioned so far) about Harrison over Nabers is that Harrison is an "X" while Nabers is "too small" for that job, IMO. Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on March 24, 2024, 10:23:48 AMPhil: I agree but the Giants DO have Hyatt who (hopefully) will take a step up next season, both in terms of his own performance but also in terms of how much Jones, Lock and ? (if any) will trust him and focus on him. Yet one more thing (not mentioned so far) about Harrison over Nabers is that Harrison is an "X" while Nabers is "too small" for that job, IMO. Bob
Bob - Nabers is 6'0" who is a hands catcher so he plays big. He's Hakeem Nicks that way so I think he is an X all day long.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 24, 2024, 10:56:19 AMBob - Nabers is 6'0" who is a hands catcher so he plays big.
Phil: I agree, but check out his highlight reel. They also played him in the slot. I don't know if that was to get him away from the opponent's top CB or for another reason. In any event, it's not necessarily a bad thing because it helps to be versatile and to know how to "operate" from all possible starting positions. Still, I have not heard one expert say Habers is closer that Harrison to a prototype "X" receiver. There may be some, but I've not seen them. Bob
Broadening this to include Odunze (who has the best hands and catch radius of the three) we cannot complain if we pick a WR at 6.
Harrison is the best all round IMO with the most polished game and complete route tree. Odunze is the most different to what we have (a true, physical, contested balls X) and Nabers is the best separator and manufacturer of yards across the middle.
Whilst I agree with Philosophers that Nabers can play outside the reason I have him third on my personal WR wish list is how he plays outside and in. I think his strengths (separation, speed, body control) and current best routes overlap in a number of ways with our trio of Wandale, Slayton and Hyatt. Harrison and Odunze are more different/complementary out of the box so would arguably open up more play call options.
Having said that when we drafted Wandale, GM Schoen emphasised that for him and HC Daboll the ability to separate was a premium ability for WR. If that is their number one priority Nabers probably should be the guy.
Unless Maye or McCarthy fall to six (or an unlikely trade up) we will get to see what the Giants choose between at least two of them in a month or so.
I think Odunze is the guy.
Quote from: londonblue on March 24, 2024, 11:36:43 AMHarrison is the best all round IMO with the most polished game and complete route tree. Odunze is the most different to what we have (a true, physical, contested balls X) and Nabers is the best separator and manufacturer of yards across the middle.
london: I can't agree with the bold part, although I can't disagree either (but I strongly suspect his ability to separate will proven to be vastly over-rated), because college DB's almost always set up against Nabers 8-to-10 yards from the line of scrimmage.
Even when they started near the line, they never contacted him but almost immediately began back-peddling when the ball was snapped. My point is that we don't know how NFL "bullying" CB's will affect Nabers' overall play, his concentration, timing, and route-running precision.
I agree Nabers was a separation wizard in college, but the issue of whether he'll be able to separate in the NFL is far from established. The team drafting him IMO will be taking a huge risk that he will not be able to do it as well as he did in college, or will be come frustrated while learning to do so.
Bob
Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 24, 2024, 11:51:08 AMI think Odunze is the guy.
J: He may turn out to be the guy, but IMO it won't happen if they want a WR (rather than a QB) and Harrison is there. As for Nabers vs. Odunze (assuming Harrison is gone and both of them are still available) it will and should depend on which guy the Giants believe is better suited to the system as well as which one provides them with the most skills none of the other current WR's possess. Bob
If it's the Giants' strategy to show interest in the top QBs of this draft and give the perception that there is a willingness to move up or down, it's a good strategy. Especially if they have no intention of moving up and driving a frenzy to those top QBs. They can either sit tight and see who falls to them or do the math and trade down a bit and still get their man. I wouldn't be surprised but I'd be happy if they come away with one of the top three Receivers. Especially if it's MHJ. They can also pick up a QB by moving up to take Bo Nix from the second round since Jones is the starter this year.
If however they do move up or get a top 4 QB on their laps, that's fine too. Sometimes drafts are very predictable and sometimes they will surprise.
Quote from: londonblue on March 24, 2024, 11:36:43 AMBroadening this to include Odunze (who has the best hands and catch radius of the three) we cannot complain if we pick a WR at 6.
Harrison is the best all round IMO with the most polished game and complete route tree. Odunze is the most different to what we have (a true, physical, contested balls X) and Nabers is the best separator and manufacturer of yards across the middle.
Whilst I agree with Philosophers that Nabers can play outside the reason I have him third on my personal WR wish list is how he plays outside and in. I think his strengths (separation, speed, body control) and current best routes overlap in a number of ways with our trio of Wandale, Slayton and Hyatt. Harrison and Odunze are more different/complementary out of the box so would arguably open up more play call options.
Having said that when we drafted Wandale, GM Schoen emphasised that for him and HC Daboll the ability to separate was a premium ability for WR. If that is their number one priority Nabers probably should be the guy.
Unless Maye or McCarthy fall to six (or an unlikely trade up) we will get to see what the Giants choose between at least two of them in a month or so.
That's a really well written post. I see your point. I so think most top wRs move around and play all 3 WR spots but being able to dominate at X is what we really need.