Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 09:38:33 AMTim,

You know I choose my words carefully.  Do you think "a sense" is the same as knowing?  When I use the words "a sense," one is less than certain.   When one is less than certain, it should limit the strength of one's statements.   I have always held the position that we can't be certain about DJ being a bust and that there is still some potential (admittedly a bit of a long shot at this point) that he can even prove to be a franchise QB.   

Speaking strictly about *our* conversations, I never said he was a bust but I also said that he has not shown any traces or tendencies of being a franchise QB. He's the very definition of an average QB who is not capable of putting his team on his back and dragging them to a victory. He can get 7-9 wins but doesn't offer anything to get 12-15. He is a step down from Ryan Tannehill but with legs.

If Jones stinks as he is very likely to do, and JJ goes on to have a great season with Minnesota (as he is also likely to have with Jefferson over there) Schoen's seat gets a little hotter but I'm not sure they fire him.

What's interesting to me is it would almost be a more fireable offense if the Giants won 7-8 games next year than it would be if they won 3.  If they end up with one of the top 2 or 3 picks in the draft next season he can take his QB and the Giants are set for a while (presuming that QB doesn't also stink which if he does he's fired soon anyway) But if they win 7 games and pick around 9 or 10 in the draft and are no longer in a position to take a QB, when he was in prime position to take one this year, and then JJ looks good in Minnesota...that to me is worse. I could see Mara and Co. asking him what the hell are we supposed to do now? And in this scenario... there's not a really good answer to that question.

I feel like Bradshaw is the James Carville of football analysis. Bald ragin Cajun's who are past their expiration date on TV.

Quote from: T200 on Today at 09:34:42 AMAnd this is where we have and continue to disagree. No need to rehash it. Just thought it was curious that you said "I believe even with disparate support, we can get a sense of how good another QB is", which is exactly why I and others have been saying.

Tim,

You know I choose my words carefully.  Do you think "a sense" is the same as knowing?  When I use the words "a sense," one is less than certain.   When one is less than certain, it should limit the strength of one's statements.   I have always held the position that we can't be certain about DJ being a bust and that there is still some potential (admittedly a bit of a long shot at this point) that he can even prove to be a franchise QB.   

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 09:30:59 AMTim,

I think there is a nuance on this issue.  In a dysfunctional environment, every, or nearly every, QB will look bad.   In a poor environment, people should factor in the poor environment (many do not).

More importantly, the ability to properly evaluate a quarterback is really the purview of that quarterback's coaching staff.  As Daboll once said, people don't know the play calls.  An apparent open receiver may be meaningless because they ran the wrong route.   The fact of the matter is that we can get a sense of QB play by watching the games (or better yet, reviewing the all-22 with an informed eye), but no one outside the organization can evaluate with a strong degree of certainty (lacking the play calls and the QB's instructions).

And this is where we have and continue to disagree. No need to rehash it. Just thought it was curious that you said "I believe even with disparate support, we can get a sense of how good another QB is", which is exactly why I and others have been saying.

Respectful Islanders chat for a change in this thread. I appreciate that. So I will be respectful when I ask the following honest question to you Rangers fans. Why is Rempe so overhyped? He has played 21 NHL games and has 3 points. When he is not scoring at a .14 PPG pace he is committing an ungodly amount of penalties and is on suspension watch by the league. But he is all over the ESPN like he is some prodigy Conner Bedard and their hosts and Rangers fans won't shut up about him.

What am I missing here? He seems like a one dimensional big guy who plays an outdated game when stars needed protection. Yes my team is guilty of having players like this. In fact he reminds me a bit of Matt Martin when he broke into the NHL at a similar age with similar stats. But no one overrated him and the Islanders were in a rebuild at the time with a young superstar John Tavares, not a playoff team trying to win the cup. Surely even great teams need roll players but they never get as much hype as he has gotten. The John Scott types only make sports center when they do something wrong. 

Quote from: T200 on Today at 09:27:08 AMI have been saying this every single year Jones has been in the league: he can be evaluated despite what support he has or doesn't have around him. I got a lot of pushback from you and others saying that it was too difficult to evaluate him because of the lack of quality NFL support.

Seems to me the ability to evaluate a player is subjective.

I really had an awakening when I saw DeVito's pocket awareness vs Jones.

Quote from: T200 on Today at 09:27:08 AMI have been saying this every single year Jones has been in the league: he can be evaluated despite what support he has or doesn't have around him. I got a lot of pushback from you and others saying that it was too difficult to evaluate him because of the lack of quality NFL support.

Seems to me the ability to evaluate a player is subjective.

Tim,

I think there is a nuance on this issue.  In a dysfunctional environment, every, or nearly every, QB will look bad.   In a poor environment, people should factor in the poor environment (many do not).

More importantly, the ability to properly evaluate a quarterback is really the purview of that quarterback's coaching staff.  As Daboll once said, people don't know the play calls.  An apparent open receiver may be meaningless because they ran the wrong route.   The fact of the matter is that we can get a sense of QB play by watching the games (or better yet, reviewing the all-22 with an informed eye), but no one outside the organization can evaluate with a strong degree of certainty (lacking the play calls and the QB's instructions).

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 09:19:32 AMI will admit that some of that is assuming that Jones is healthy and will get a chance to operate in at least a minimally supportive NFL quarterback environment this season.  Plus, we have 2022, where DJ did operate in a less-than-ideal, but at least not dysfunctional (like 2023) environment.  Much like Schoen and Daboll were able to evaluate Jones enough in 2022 to give him his big contract.

I have been saying this every single year Jones has been in the league: he can be evaluated despite what support he has or doesn't have around him. I got a lot of pushback from you and others saying that it was too difficult to evaluate him because of the lack of quality NFL support.

Seems to me the ability to evaluate a player is subjective.

Quote from: T200 on Today at 09:19:06 AMAs a fan, and in general, I try not to engage in it. It's self-defeatist, in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure all GMs and coaches know being second-guessed by fans and the media are a part of the job. They expect it and it probably doesn't phase them.

Tim,

I will confess I like to play armchair GM (and occasional HC).  Team-building just fascinates me.  Although I have my ideas of what I would do, I tend not to second-guess the actual GM or HC because I know they make their decisions wth far more information than I do; plus, they know their profession better than I do.  I think all of us do give in to the second-guessing temptation when dealing with GMs like Gettleman and HCs like Joe Judge.