Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on Today at 10:36:19 AMI've spent a lot of time (too much actually) thinking about how many of this year's draftees will become starters out of the gate, which from all I've heard and read over the years (and I'm old), is the true measure of a successful draft

Without a doubt, Nabors is a day 1 starter;  I think Nubin is a day 1 starter as well; and I think there's an above average chance that Philips starts at Nickel. I think Theo Johnson will see quite a few snaps this season, but not necessarily as a starter, but he will be eventually and become to the Giants, what Witten was to Dallas (had to throw that in). Tracy will probably start as a STs player and, like Theo as TE, will eventually become a regular starter as a RB and gadget player. I have no clue about Muasau, unless he's a superb STs player...and to be honest, I'm still scratching my head over that pick; although, it makes sense if our new ST coach, Michael Ghobrial wanted him and thus, had a lot of impact on the pick, as he was a STs demon at Hawaii when Ghobrial was there  I think that's the same reason we picked up Eluemunor in free agency, as he was one of Bricillo's star students/players at the Raiders. It's nice that Schoen respects his coaches enough to allow them a chance to reunite with a player that is special to them...but I digress

So, if I'm right, three of the draft picks will be starters on day one, and two will become starters soon (within two years). If I'm right, that makes this a very successful draft

Ric,

I agree in terms of how you see players contributing this year. Muasau is a special teams ace.  He is likely going to push Carter Coughlin off the roster.   So his role will be ST ace who won't be a huge liability if he is forced to take some snaps at ILB. 

Quote from: Jclayton92 on Today at 10:01:08 AMThis is the Carolina preseason game all over again. How many times does Jones have to let you down for you to finally realize he's not it?

Jess,

You were one of those who had written DJ's obituary before, only to discover you were premature.  Why do you think you are correct this time?

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on Today at 10:08:54 AMeveryone is out of excuses (despite the fact that ought to be the case last year).

The Giants had the worst offensive line in the league last year

Jones was pressured more frequently and quickly than any QB

Jones had no receiving threat of note

I am not sure what you define as excuses, but for those of us who try to be fair in our evaluations (we don't use charged language like "excuses"), Jones was put in a terrible situation for a QB to do well.  It's not to suggest that Jones doesn't need to step up his game, but I am not sure any QB could have done well in DJ's situation last year.
 

https://x.com/PFF_Giants/status/1785309157811195918

Garafolo is pretty well connected with the Giants


https://x.com/awthentik/status/1785074659907584277

Quote from: FL GMAN on Today at 09:42:22 AMI find it amazing that pro scouts can view prospects this highly drafted so differently. I thought the Giants nailed the draft 2 years ago with Neal and Thibs. I hope both improve but as of now they are not what I thought.

Former Giants scout and head of Bears scouting Greg Gabriel likes to say if you put 5 scouts in a room and run some film, you will get 5 different reports.  Scouting is an inexact science.  I think part of the problem is you expect scouts to be experts at scouting every position.  I don't think that's a realistic expectation, as every position requires scouting drastically different traits.  Still, that's the way the NFL has always done it, and logistically (in terms of going to schools during the season) it's the most practical way.

If it were up to me I would be having scouts scouting a handful of positions (the ones they do best) rather than having them do all positions and have them scouting regions of the country.

Quote from: katkavage on Today at 09:37:25 AMIt's not a wild conspiracy to think that Mara was very much aware and in consultation with the GM on the first pick in the draft. And that the QB search was always a smokescreen. And that contract for Jones? Not done without consulting Mara? Please. He's not a cartoon villain. Just not a very good team owner in terms of success based on his own hirings to start with.

The Giants have been run the same way for decades.  The GM is the ultimate decider, but the owner shares his views and opinions.  Frankly, considering that Mara grew up on Giants football, that doesn't seem like the worst thing.   The man learned football from greats like George Young, Bill Parcells, and Tom Coughlin.  It's not like he is some wealthy stockbroker who thinks his financial savvy easily translates to the football world.

I have heard people in the know fault Mara's loyalty, and I don't disagree.  Ronnie Barnes is the poster boy for people the team has kept past their sell-by-data.   Still, I hear far more unfair and unfounded criticism, in terms of conspiracy theories (I am not a fan of conspiracy theories), than he deserves.

In the 2022 offseason, most considered Daniel Jones a dead man walking.   

Consider:

1) The Giants passed on exercising DJ's 5th-year option

2) The Giants signed Tyrod Taylor who many fans claimed was as good or better than Jones (he did have a Pro Bowl to his resume)

3) Jones had injury issues and needed to prove he could stay healthy

4) Worst of all, Jones was going to have to prove himself behind a mediocre, at best, O-line with no significant receiving targets.  He would get a bit of a tangential boost from Barkley (who already lost something after his major knee injury)

Everyone was writing Daniel Jones off, there was much talk about the QBs in the draft. Only Daniel Jones decided he wasn't ready to be dead and buried.  He dragged his under-talented team to the playoffs and beat the 13-4 Vikings in the hostile Minnesota stadium.  He earned himself a solid contract.

From Daniel's perspective, this is just deja vue all over again.   I am not suggesting that Jones will stay healthy and knock it out of the park.  I am just suggesting we shouldn't be shocked if Jones plays like a franchise QB and takes the team to the playoffs again while at least staying healthy enough.

I hope Phil still does podcasting, as I think he still has things of value to say


https://x.com/PhilSimmsQB/status/1784943898923524327

Quote from: Trench on April 29, 2024, 07:14:31 PMThis is a very interesting point you raise. It will be fascinating to see what our defense is (or isn't).

I have been real hard on Thibs and I hope a new coach and scheme will release him into beast mode. I also like the signing of Carter Coughlin, a role player but is developing. Add to the strong play of Pinnock and Belton it will be interesting to watch

With Burns rushing from the other end, OCs are going to be challenged in terms of giving help (in terms of double teams and slanting) to both OTs.  That should help both pass rushers.

Quote from: katkavage on Today at 07:10:23 AMI don't know about Joe Alt, but I'm pretty sure, picking 6, they never were serious about a QB despite the blather of Mara and Schoen. If they were picking number 1 they would haven't had a choice and would have had to take Williams. Anything other than that, I think they would have traded out. It's all about saving face over the contract for Jones.

It's amazing how, in some fans' eyes, John Mara has become this cartoon villain.  It's sort of like what we see league-wide with Rodger Goodell.   The reality is that Goodell suffers the wrath of much of the NFL fanbase, but he is just the face of the decision made by the owners.

If you want to hold Mara accountable for Gettleman and Joe Judge, that's reasonable.  However, the amount of wild conspiracy theories that are created around Mara and what he does as co-owner of the Giants is truly remarkable.

Quote from: B1GBLUE on Today at 08:50:52 AMInteresting draft. seems like we got at least 2 day 1 starters in nabers and nubin. phillips seems to be a well regarded player who can instantly be the lead slot guy, and probably can move into the #2 spot across from banks.

I think the team will be pushing Flott out to the boundary to compete with McCloud and Hawkins for CB 2 with Phillips being the team's new slot CB.

The Eagles did their usual excellent job with plenty of accolades (although they didn't really address the loss of some key veterans)

The Cowboys seemed to have gotten worse, with RB being a big question mark

The Commanders are better on paper, but it remains to be seen on the field.  The team is likely going to need a season or two to become competitive.

@Ed Vette that was some turnaround.  Prior to the draft you were talking about how excited you were, how this was the most important draft, and even threw in a reference to the multiverse.  Now you seem absolutely crestfallen.


As to the question, I think this team is moving in the right direction.  I appreciate the team lost Barkley and McKinney, but in my mind, it's not about adding good players; it's about adding impact players.  While it's not unreasonable to label both Barkley and McKinney as good, neither really made an impact on the team nor its fortunes.

Now, with the qualifier that this is a speculative thread and question, so we are projecting the play of players, I see the following:

On offense, the Giants added Nabers, who I feel will have a significant positive impact. He will do that by not only giving the quarterback an open target but also adding significant YAC, something this offense hasn't had in quite some time.

I also see players making bigger positive impacts this year than last, including JMS, Hyatt, Robinson, and Daniel Jones (if he stays healthy).

I wouldn't be surprised if Theo Johnson and Tyrone Tracy are year-one contributors.

I don't believe there will be a drop off at RB

At QB, I am concerned about DJ's ability to stay healthy, but I am intrigued as to what Drew Lock can bring to the table.  He always had talent, but from what I hear, he finally "gets it" in terms of what it take to be an NFL QB.

Still, the biggest problem with the offense was the offensive line. I hope that when we look back on next season, we will say the biggest addition to the team was O-line coach Carmen Bricillo.  Adding a bunch of proven veterans to pair with the younger players seems to be a wise move at this point.

On Defense, I don't have any reason to believe that Shane Bowen isn't a competent DC.  The addition of Burns and the day two DBs were nice additions.  There were already some solid contributors with Dex, Thibs, and Okereka.  There is no reason to think the Giants can't field at least a middle-of-the-pack defense with some potential upside.


Coaching is an interesting issue.  I have gone on record that I didn't like how the Giants handled the situation.  Still, if one wants to take the optimistic view, Daboll's staff should at least all be on the same page and follow Daboll's vision for how the team should be run.  That has the potential to make things much better for the team.

So all-in-all I am cautiously optimistic

McGinn's series with quotes from NFL scouts has always been a favorite of mine.  With so much stuff posted during the draft, these often get buried.   I just finished rereading all of them, and I found them to be enjoyable exercises.

2. MALIK NABERS, Louisiana State (6-0, 199, 4.44, 1): Third-year junior. "He's that all-around, well-polished, freakishly athletic individual," said one scout. "His traits just jump off the tape at you." His pro day workout included a 42-inch vertical jump and 10-9 broad jump. "I absolutely love watching Malik Nabers," a second scout said. "He's not your typical size for an 'X' but he has the speed, the separation, routes and hands. Where he separates himself is run after catch. That's what makes him such an exciting player. CeeDee Lamb is a little bit bigger; Nabers is more sudden and (has) better top-end speed." A third scout graded him on a par with Justin Jefferson, another LSU product. "He's powerful, he's explosive and he can win at every level of route running, which makes him special as a high-floor player," a fourth scout said. "He can run after the catch. He can run intermediate routes. He can track the deep ball." Started 30 of 38 games. Finished with 189 catches for 3,003 (15.9) and 21 TDs. "He's not Harrison," a fifth scout said. "If you see that just ignore it. He's more of the D.J. Moore kind of player. Thick running back build. He's a good player, a really good player. I don't think he has elite ball skills." From Youngsville, La. "He is what he is right now," said a sixth scout. "He's topped out. Against the Alabama corners his production all came against zone coverage over the middle. When he was manned up he struggled. But he has straight dog in him once he catches the ball."

1. TYLER NUBIN, Minnesota (6-1, 205, 4.61, 2-3): High-school corner moved to safety once he reached the Twin Cities. "They played him (in the box) but if you watch him covering on special teams you know he can play in space," one scout said. "He is a special-teams demon. Nubin gives you more than (Kamren) Kinchens because he could be that big nickel. He plays with a physical mindset. He's better than Kinchens in natural tight end matchups in man coverage or as a general slot guy. He's got great ball skills, too. For a guy you don't see going backwards very often he's always around the ball." Ran an unexpectedly slow 40. "That hurt him," a second scout said. "Instincts are his thing. He's quick to trigger. Better in zone than man. Physical around the line of scrimmage. Little tight in his backpedal but uses his size well to play physical and doesn't give up separation much. Struggles to open his hips and change direction, but nothing crazy. Can track (the deep ball). Looks to lay a hit. I think he should have come out last year but I still think he's a pretty good football player. Yes, he'll be a starter. I would say second round but he would have been a first-rounder last year." Just 10 reps on the bench press. "He doesn't have great range but he can do the interchangeable stuff," a third scout said. "He'll be a good teams player. He's had production on the ball." Started 43 of 55 games, finishing with 207 tackles (4 ½ for loss), 13 picks and 24 passes defensed. From St. Charles, Ill.

10. ANDRU PHILLIPS, Kentucky (5-10 ½, 192, 4.48, 3): Fourth-year junior with a 42-inch vertical jump and an 11-3 broad jump. "He's excellent," one scout said. "His movement skills, his toughness, his awareness and production ... to me, this guy's a slam-dunk starter. He can play inside and outside – probably better in the slot. He's so fluid. You'd be good with him as your No. 2 corner moving forward." Started 16 of 38 games over four seasons. "He has a compact build," a second scout said. "More of a nickel. Not the greatest speed. Quicker than he is fast. Kind of a mid-range cover guy than deep." Finished with 82 tackles (three for loss), no picks and 10 passes defensed. "He's a little bit under the radar but a pretty good player," a third scout said. From Mauldin, S.C.

4. THEO JOHNSON, Penn State (6-6, 261, 4.62, 3-4): Helped himself at the combine with a solid 40, a 39 ½-inch vertical jump and a position-best short shuttle of 4.19. "I'd rather take a shot on him than Sanders," one scout said. "He's on the upside. He's got assertiveness with his blocking but he's not consistent with his blocking. He can make hard, adjusting catches but he can't run after the catch. He doesn't make people miss in space." Started 29 of 45 games over four years, finishing with 77 receptions for 938 (12.2) and 12 TDs. "He's a little bit intriguing," said another scout. "He's a big guy. He's fast. He'll give you effort as a blocker. He's much improved in that area. He's got ball skills. He's a really clunky mover, a really unnatural route runner. He's Canadian, so he's raw. I thought he might go back to school. If somebody really wants one they might take him in the third but I don't think he's worth that." From Windsor, Ontario.

12. TYRONE TRACY, Purdue (5-11, 209, 4.48, 4-5): Started 16 of his 38 games as a wide receiver at Iowa from 2018-'21. Had 36 receptions in 2019. Team captain in '21. Transferred to Purdue in 2022 and was a backup wideout before moving to running back last year and flourishing. "Love him," one scout said. "Change of pace guy. Did really well in his first year really playing running back." Posted 113 of his career total of 146 rushes in 2023 when he led the Big Ten in yards per carry (6.4). Finished with 947 (6.5) and 10 TDs to go with 113 receptions. "Kind of new to the position so he's feeling it out," a second scout said. "His vision keeps him alive. Like a No. 3 running back who contributes on special teams. Not a powerful back but he's grown into that body and stays on his feet and fights for extra yardage. Has enough speed to get outside. Struggled in pass pro." His 3-cone time of 6.81 led the position. From Indianapolis.