Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on January 11, 2023, 11:36:47 AMElite, or even very good QBs, make their players better. If you need players to kake you better, than you are not that, you are average at best.

If DJ plays more games like his last few, perhaps the view on him can change a bit. But I currently still don't view him as a long term, $35m+ guy

He's definitely short term 2-3 year hopefully with it all up front so we can continue building out the team for a couple of years and have it ready for whoever. I just doubt a majority of this roster is here for it minus Lawrence, Thomas, thibs, Neal, Bellinger, and Mckinney.

Quote from: Rambo89 on January 11, 2023, 05:54:43 AMTo be fair I heard the same thing a year ago if the Giants replaced Jason Garrett as offensive coordinator and upgraded the offensive line.  Both of those things were done and all it led to was going from 31st to 24th in passing yards and that was with Jones making 5 more starts than he did a year ago along with a healthy Barkley to open things up off playaction.

If you have to have a 16 million a year RB and a 20-30 million a year Wr so that your Qbs stats aren't in the 20s is it really worth it? Just saying.

Quote from: T200 on January 10, 2023, 10:22:23 AMThat's great and all but the flip side is that he only averaged 6.8 YPA which means he primarily is throwing shorter passes. It's fine and I don't have a problem with it but I'd like to see where he ranks in number of passes less than 20 yards. I'd go out on a limb and say he's at least top 3.

He's tied for 28th with Murray in passes of 20+ with 27 and he's 22nd in passes of 40+ with 5. Net yards per passing play he's 24th with 5.7. This may be the closest one to what you are asking but he's tied for 27th in Completed air yard per completion with baker Mayfield at 5.1 yards. So the average completed pass is 5.1 yard in the air. He's also 33rd on his Alex score with -1.2 meaning he throws on average 1.2 yards short of the 1st down.

Hopefully those stats help. Couldn't find the passes short of 10 or 20 yards though.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 06, 2023, 03:29:38 PMSeth Galina of PFF has perhaps the most negative evaluation of Jones I have seen in some time:

DANIEL JONES
2022 PFF Grade: 76.7
Strength: Athletic ability
Weakness: Timing
Best Fit: The NFL offenses that make their quarterbacks look better than they are

With the Giants returning to the playoffs, there is enough goodwill for the franchise to endure another season from Daniel Jones, but he and the team are likely regression candidates. Head coach Brian Daboll and offensive coordinator Mike Kafka have done a commendable job creating an offense that hid most of Jones' faults. Jones is at best a slightly above-average quarterback and could look effective in a good scheme (he has that this year) and with a good supporting group of pass catchers (he does not have that this year), but he will probably never be a player who can elevate his teammates.

The Giants' coaching staff protected Jones with a league-leading number of bootlegs, the fourth-most quarterback runs and a seventh-ranked running game in expected points added per play this season. This was the perfect storm for Daniel Jones to look like a good quarterback without necessarily being one.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-preview-2023-free-agent-quarterback-class-lamar-jackson-geno-smith-tom-brady

I think between this one and the PFF you shared both have truths. I think when Teams gameplans prioritize Jones over Barkley then he can look like what the PFF article stated. Specifically the Seattle and Lions game. Those two games highlight his tendency to dance or stay in the pocket entirely too long but for the most part this season he's looked like the first article from Dan. Maybe Seth only watched the first couple of conference games plus seattle and Detriot. Who knows but it's definitely not as bad as Dan makes it especially if we see Jones vs the Jags, Vikes, Colts consistently moving forward.

I still don't think he's the long term answer because of my views on team building (we have a lot of team left to build) but he's earned the right to compete next year and build off the end if this season.

I also think the fan base as a whole and media outlets might have a different perception of Jones had we opened the playbook a little earlier than the last 3 weeks.

Quote from: ozzie on January 06, 2023, 08:28:16 AMI haven't begun watching this yet, but I heard about this the Episode "order" and this intrigues me. I will definitely check it out.

Yeah it's so weird the episodes aren't numbered they are color coded and you can watch them in any order but I recommend Yellow first.

kaleidoscope just came out on Netflix

A master thief and his crew attempt an epic heist worth $7 billion, but betrayal, greed and other threats undermine their plans.

Gincarlo Esposito stars

What's even more fun is the episodes aren't numbered and ordered differently for everyone. So you don't know if you are watching the finale first or premiere last. The episodes show up different so that everyone can have a different perspective on the show. Truly bonkers but maybe brilliant idea. In on episode 2 and loving it but I love heist movies. So far it's oceans 11 meets the town, but I'll follow up when I finish.

Quote from: Blue Fire on January 05, 2023, 03:31:32 PMTHE HERD | Greg Cosell tells Colin: Daniel Jones is the best
QB that can win NFC under Brian Daboll

https://youtu.be/DbUO3-SdTOY

Cosell: Daboll comfortable with Jones throwing 45 times....By the way with a Very average core of WRs behind a revolving door offensive line

A) No one said anything about Jones being the best Qb or that he could win the NFC in that video.

B) The last part you put under the video is out of context. He was saying that Daboll felt comfortable with Jones throwing it 45 times in the Vikings game, what does the Vikings team have that give context to the quote? The worst passing defense In the league, he even started it by saying "In the Vikings game Daboll was comfortable" and you left it out.

You know better than this by now its frankly absurd that everything you post has to be triple checked for accuracy instead of just being consumed for learning.

Why wouldn't you just put Cosell talks to Colin Cowherd about Daniel Jones.

Quote from: Blue Fire on January 02, 2023, 08:09:41 PMWow #8 is a player that I think is going to have almost evry fan on the bandwagon before too much longer. DG made a lot of mistakes granted but picks 2, 4 and 6 were not among them. He nailed those.

In all fairness if he had nailed them you wouldn't have 100's pages of discussion and probably a 100 more pages of deleted discussion on whether to keep them or not.

Quote from: brownelvis54 on January 01, 2023, 09:14:13 PMGood teams beat bad teams...thats what they are supposed to do. And of course the Jones haters are going to say " but its the Colts" Well look what thety did last week to Hebert and the Chargers. No TDs and an INT by Herbert, But again its Jones... Yeah I get it

What are you talking about? First of all after all the banning and the multiple threads about civil discourse A) posting a picture of an Apology form and B) classifying people as haters is a bold move..  when if you actually read the forum you post in we are pretty much all in agreement he should be resigned at the right price, we've all said that the past few days. It just happens that you and other fans only come around when we win, only post when things are going well.

So I'm not sure what you gloating has to do with Herbert, or whatever you were trying to say.. look back at the game thread, look back at my post today did I say Jones had a bad day Brown? Did I? No I said he had a good game which he did... but to act like he's the next coming of Patrick mahomes and start passing apology forms out because he had a good game is absurd and you're just baiting people at that point.

When Jones has had bad games, because he has this season has anyone came in here the same day and dogged Jones or put faces of free agent QBs on a form? No they haven't because when he has a bad game the team has a bad game. One Good game, just like one bad game does not make a career. So maybe go back and look at the conversation for the past two days before you call people haters. But you love daniel Jones so I guess you get that luxury. Just because I don't want to pay him 40 million a year doesn't mean I hate him, I just love the team more.

Quote from: brownelvis54 on January 01, 2023, 08:30:34 PMI dont see any gloating

You put up a DJ Apology form after he beat a bad team with no QB, no head coach, and 2 of their star players on offense and defense out.  Just saying.

Quote from: brownelvis54 on January 01, 2023, 06:32:37 PMTime to admit.

Because he beat a team he was supposed to beat? Don't get me wrong He played really well but to act like he's the future for the next 5 to 10 years is a completely different story.

Erasing the past 4 years in 2 games one of which we lost just isn't possible. Plus people that like Jones and people that aren't fond him are all basically on the same page at this point, we'd love to have you back but... and that but is typically 2 year with reasonable money.

Quote from: kingm56 on January 01, 2023, 05:56:49 PMI think that conclusion was reached by 95% of the board several weeks ago.  Jones is above average and the Giants relative draft position will prevent them from getting thier guy.  The only thing left to discuss is the aperture the Giants' will use to retain his services.  I continue to advocate for the Franchise tag...

Yeah it's all about the money and after the recent contract disasters I think people will be gun shy 3yr 120 is a lot

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on December 31, 2022, 10:09:42 AMI've said they should roll with Tyrod next year

I personally think this is the better move because:

1. $5.5M vs $30M

2. Gives them a chance to build out the roster some more, upgrades, depth, etc between FA, Draft and UDFA. Tyrod would not be playing with this roster, but an upgraded one, with returning pieces having a year in the system, along with a new turf and players coming back from IR

I think Tyrod w/ an upgraded roster will be a more functional and better offense than DJ with this years crop. If I can upgrade without paying $30M, I will. Then in 2024 draft your guy, another FA and draft to add more too. Unless they draft one this year.

Aside from "their guy" I would also try to pickup another QB in the middle or late rounds that has size and physical tools that translate to the NFL w/ coaching, just as Redskins did with RG3 and Cousins that year, never hurts to take another swing at the bat.

It doesn't even have to be Tyrod but Tyrod plus a minshew or Brisset competing. I'd do everything with my draft picks this year to get more draft picks in 2024. 2024 besides that draft having a ton of Qbs will also be the Free agency where a ton of WRs will be available. So I think stock and load for 2024.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 28, 2022, 02:45:54 PMWhat are you talking about?  Players with a 70 or better grade make less than 31% of the snaps.  That's a fact.  Also, why use words like "upset" and "making such a big deal"?  I thought we are talking numbers and analytics

well since you asked, I used the words because you have a tendency to get emotional about things and then rant on them for 4-5 pages ensuring you get the last word. So instead of having to read the next 4 pages of you getting upset because people weren't taking your 4th and 5th wr pff scores seriously enough I just asked why you were upset.. don't you worry though rich, I won't ever ask about your emotional well being ever again... because your neutral and it's just stats and analytics right?

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 28, 2022, 02:21:56 PMYet, when you list stats they are not for just the starters

You're getting upset because our 4th TE and 7th Wr has a 50 pff. Just not sure why you're making such a big deal of players that aren't actively involved in the game..