Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: jimc on Today at 10:13:44 AMI believe this is the crux of the issue. Being hyper critical of DJ can and should never be confused with supporting him. You may say being critical does not prevent you from rooting for him, but I disagree. I contend that most folks that are hyper critical are more likely to root against DJ in order to prove they are correct in their hyper critical analysis. 

hyper critical equals "shitting on"
hyper critical not equal to constructive criticism

I get what you are trying to say but you are completely wrong.

All the people that supposedly "hate" Jones on this forum are the primary ones in every game day thread rooting him on.

This is an NFL team forum, we are hyper critical of every single player and coach.

Most of this forum have been hyper critical of multiple players and coaches.

Neal
Barkley
Thibodaux
McFadden
Mckethan and Ezeudu
Xavier Mckinney
Bobby Johnson

And more

So it's ok for the majority of the fan base to be hyper critical of them constantly and root for them but it's different for Jones?

Nothing would have made me happier than Jones being the guy because then we wouldn't have to find one but that hasn't been the case.

I am actual on the opposite side of the Neal debate as I think he got really good reps in before getting injured this past season. The majority here though have been hyper critical of him for his comments and his play. Are they actively rooting against him?

Hard knocks started in January and ends in July.

When has anyone that is an actual giants fan in this forum rooted against Daniel Jones? Ever...

If anything Daniel Jones being great would make everything significantly easier for the football team.

Do we now also think that the people that believe Neal is horrible are also actively rooting against him as well?

So "insert player" is bad, so the fan base must be actively rooting against him?

You hear more about Jones than other players because his play hasn't elevated year on year with his pay.

People thinking Jones is a bad Qb and rooting against him are two very different things. Most people that are actual Giants fans acknowledge how bad he's been then when the whistlebl blows are locked in on the Giants and Jones winning.

Quote from: kingm56 on May 15, 2024, 02:37:14 PMWhen does it end?  I stopped watching many years ago; the initial seasons were raw and allowed you to witness the sausage making.  Unfortunately, it's now a massive scripted production...IMO, it lost its initial charm; still, I'll watch this season because it's our Giants.

It's from January to July, we won't see any players on the field. We do however get to see their thought process on Barkley, and the draft.

Quote from: kingm56 on May 15, 2024, 02:24:24 PMAs it relates to context, should we continue to decouple the Offensive Line from the QB performance? From your posts, I get the impression you believe only the QB benefits from the OL, but fail to acknowledge the OL benefits from sound QB play. If the latter is terrible, it can make the OL appear worse than it is, or at the very least make thier jobs more difficult.  I stumbled across the article below a few years back and kept it to test thier conclusions at the end of each year. I highly encourage you read and consider the points made.  To be clear, I'm not suggesting the Giants OL is great, good, or even average. I acknowledge they stink and negatively impact DJ's performance; however, I also acknowledge DJ's shortcomings contribute to a significant portion of his sacks. IMO, they collectively stunk...

https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/are-nfl-quarterbacks-responsible-for-sack-quality 

That article is about EPA, I found another EPA stat the other day that was interesting if not alarming.

1st round QBs to post negative EPA/att in EACH of their first 3 years in the NFL:

Joey Harrington (2002-04)
Kyle Boller (2003-05)
Sam Darnold (2018-20)
Daniel Jones (2019-21)
Zach Wilson (2021-23)
Justin Fields (2021-23)

(since 2000, min 200 att/yr)

Per Warren Sharp

Quote from: Ed Vette on May 15, 2024, 01:59:15 PMThey don't know who the starting QB will be.

....

Is this anything new? For the past 5 years it's been Barkley and now it's Lawrence and Thibs. The best players on the team or flashy 1st rd picks are typically the focus of the media.

They signed 4 free agent guards with flex plus 2 blocking TEs and drafted another.

JMS in year 2 plus what is really year 2 for Neal with a new oline coach and there's no way they aren't better.

I'm not saying elite or even great but could easily see us being 18th at the end of 2024 with our additions.

I'd argue he's the one game manager in the league currently that you could actually win a super bowl with. Goff has averaged 4,500 yards and 30 tds in 4 of his 8 seasons.

Quote from: Philosophers on May 12, 2024, 08:25:41 PMOn Giants.com he is listed at 6'2" and 175 pounds.  Not a better source than that.  That's rail thin.

He added 10lbs after his rookie year from 165 to 175 then an additional 4 each of the following 2 years. Currently he's 3 inches taller than Adoree Jackson and 2-3lbs lighter.

I saw a YT video on Flotts body transformation from college to the NFL and it was discussed how he added 18lbs over 3 years without taking anything away from him speed wise. I'll try to find the video but hopefully that helps give you an idea of where he's at physically.

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 12, 2024, 10:59:27 AMJess,

That wasn't a throwaway line, as you called it; that was an indication of the obsession and hatred some have for Daniel Jones, as there was no reasonable explanation for why the author felt the need to take that potshot.  It's not like Burns is even an offensive player

"So, perhaps unfairly, he lands here, capped, in a way, by the lingering uncertainty around what Daniel Jones will bring to the table."

Where in that is there hate? You automatically assume he is speaking to Jones play when he could simply be speaking about his health. So without knowing the context it is beyond ridiculous to assume the guy is slamming Jones.

The author brings up major players for every team that the player is going to. They bring up A Rodgers on the Hassan Reddick trade, all the Titans offensive weapons when discussing the Sneed trade, and so on. Jones was not singled out or treated any different than anyone else in the article.

Lingering uncertainty to what Jones brings to the table is more than likely referring to his health.

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 12, 2024, 10:21:57 AMDid I misread the title?  Was this an article about quarterbacks?

Rich You titled the thread Jones hate among sports pundits and proceeded to list one guy who was talking about Brian burns. Yes he mentioned the qb in a throwaway line but it wasn't hate.

Especially when you consider that the guy in the article talks about the team that the player is going to. Each trade the guy brings up qbs, wrs, tes, and so on for the team the player is going to so Jones wasn't singled out and wasn't the only qb discussed so you're making it into something it absolutely isn't.

Hate? The guy basically said the Giants will only go as far as Jones takes them. I think most would agree with the statement, as he is the Qb for the team currently. If it was any other nfl team that had a qb coming off an injury they'd likely say the exact same thing.

Quote from: BluesCruz on May 11, 2024, 07:28:14 PMTommy DeVito is the best Giants QB in my opinion

He has the right mindset and can make all the throws....also a good pocket presence

The other two will fail miserably I'm afraid before Tommy gets another shot

Meanwhile he's getting a lot of practice with the scout team

Most NFl UDFAs only get one shot to make an impression and Devito had 5 games to show everyone what he had. Daboll then kindly showed him to the bench.

As a udfa you want your team to not be able to bench you because you are playing at an elite level. That was not the case with Devito though and that's why he finished the season on the sidelines.

He needed to show he was a significant upgrade to what we had starting and he couldn't do that period.

Quote from: Ed Vette on May 11, 2024, 04:05:15 PMI think overall a slightly better roster than he inherited after three drafts and FA is pretty poor. Rich posted the five year average PFF support teams and 2022 the year he inherited was the best year for the Giants.

A neutral rating for QB and RB is reasonable but I'll point out that Barkley was four years younger. I believe the DL is worse but the Edge/OLB is stronger. Together that could be a neutral for me.

The one thing you can take away is that we are investing in premium positions. The premium positions on this roster have been addressed, have they all been home runs absolutely not but Wr, Tackle, CB, Edge, and even to a certain extent Qb have been addressed while positions that aren't as big of a premium have shed their high price tags ie Safety, RB, and so on.