Is it possible to fire Daboll and hire Bellichek?

[kingm56]

Not sure fans are over valuing coaching as much as you seem to be undervaluing it.

Bill said himself players win games. But the idea that we can just draft a great QB and coaching doesn't matter is a flawed one.

So it's just a coincidence that

Not sure fans are over valuing coaching as much as you seem to be undervaluing it.

Bill said himself players win games. But the idea that we can just draft a great QB and coaching doesn't matter is a flawed one.

So it's just a coincidence that Trevor Lawrence started hitting his stride when he got a decent coach?

So Justin Herbert isn't really a prolific passer? He is but his coach stinks.

And the fact that Daboll is supposedly a head coach and stuck with Faniel Jones instead of drafting a QB or bringing in someone besides Tyrod — who is easily the best QB on the team; the fact he didn't bench Jones speaks volumes. This is still Maras team or he's a crumby coach. Either way not a good look.

I'll ask again you think bill bellicheck would tolerate orders from Mara ?

started hitting his stride when he got a decent coach?

So Justin Herbert isn't really a prolific passer? He is but his coach stinks.

And the fact that Daboll is supposedly a head coach and stuck with Faniel Jones instead of drafting a QB or bringing in someone besides Tyrod — who is easily the best QB on the team; the fact he didn't bench Jones speaks volumes. This is still Maras team or he's a crumby coach. Either way not a good look.

I'll ask again you think bill bellicheck would tolerate orders from Mara ?

You completely avoided the question, again.  I understand why you do so; you can't offer a logical answer that doesn't refute your premise.  So, you're attempting to obfuscate the discussion.  For example, comparing Lawrence's rookie year to his second year is a massive fallacy; analysis clearly indicate QBs make their biggest leap between years 1 and 2.  For example, Payton Manning and Troy Aikman enjoyed HoF coaching their first seasons; yet, both were terrible during their rookie years.  Similar to almost all QBs, they 'hit their strides' during the second seasons.  Justin Herbert is a particular odd example as he directly discredits your point; to my point, he's a prolific passer with a terrible coach and he'll continue to be a prolific passer with an average to above-average coach.   

I'll ask again you think bill bellicheck would tolerate orders from Mara ?

BB had total autonomy the last four years and managed to run NE into the ground without the aforementioned HoF QB; so, the expectations that he's going to come here and turn things around, without a top-tier QB, is perplexing.  Why would NY be different than NE? Like EVERY single team who manufactured a tangible turnaround, it starts with the QB, not the HC. Fundamentally, BB wouldn't make an appreciable difference with the same roster/QB.  How do I know?  W can you use the performance of several future HoF coaches without HoF QBs.  Tomlin, Payton, Carrol and lil Bill have been average, to downright terrible without their AP QBs.  Even young HCs like McVay and Taylor struggled without their signal callers.  While you can offer a few examples at best, I can offer literally hundreds of tem.  BL: If you don't have a QB, the HC doesn't make much of difference.

I've answered your question.  How about you answer the question posed to you:

"If he isn't winning because he hasn't had an opportunity to get another generational QB then what's the point of bringing him in here?"

[Fletch]

"If he isn't winning because he hasn't had an opportunity to get another generational QB then what's the point of bringing him in here?"

I thought I did answer your question by saying Little Bill was hamstrung by poor draft positions for like the last 6 years ; he has not drafted higher than 15, and in at least one year did not draft in the first round while in another picked 31st if you want to count that really as first round pick.

You are putting too much emphasis on a QB. Perhaps the game has passed him by, but I don't think Bill has drafted a QB in the first round since Mack Jones.

And maybe he did miss on Mack Jones , but I would trust him to make the evaluation of Daniel Jones and draft another QB in a heavy QB draft class than I would Shoen and Mara.

Also, I would expect to the defense to be even better than they were which was the only real positive I have seen of the last season.

[jgrangers2]

You are putting too much emphasis on a QB. Perhaps the game has passed him by, but I don't think Bill has drafted a QB in the first round since Mack Jones.

And maybe he did miss on Mack Jones , but I would trust him to make the evaluation of Daniel Jones and draft another QB in a heavy QB draft class than I would Shoen and Mara.

Based on what? We have no reason to think he has some insane eye for QBs when his entire career can be boiled down to one guy that was drafted in the 6th round 25 years ago. He's had one opportunity since then to get and mold his guy and that's been a miserable failure.

[Fletch]

Based on what? We have no reason to think he has some insane eye for QBs when his entire career can be boiled down to one guy that was drafted in the 6th round 25 years ago. He's had one opportunity since then to get and mold his guy and that's been a miserable failure.

His entire career was based on a guy he drafted 25 years ago? You don't think that is a bit of an over-simplification? he doesn't get credit for defenses? He  doesn't get credit for the development of said QB?

You really think Daniel Jones would be  on this roster if little Bill was coach here. Shep in the year 2023 filled a roster spot here. Come on. THey were lucky they got to play the Eagles late this year, and not the Jaguars fighting for a playoff spot; otherwise they would have been a 5 win team.

No coach has an insane eye for QBs. Part of it is the coaching and part of it is the player themselves developing into Josh Allen or some are still the same mediocre QB they were in college despite having a decent coach in Garrett mentoring them along.

[jgrangers2]

His entire career was based on a guy he drafted 25 years ago? You don't think that is a bit of an over-simplification? he doesn't get credit for defenses? He  doesn't get credit for the development of said QB?

You really think Daniel Jones would be  on this roster if little Bill was coach here. Shep in the year 2023 filled a roster spot here. Come on. THey were lucky they got to play the Eagles late this year, and not the Jaguars fighting for a playoff spot; otherwise they would have been a 5 win team.

No coach has an insane eye for QBs. Part of it is the coaching and part of it is the player themselves developing into Josh Allen or some are still the same mediocre QB they were in college despite having a decent coach in Garrett mentoring them along.

Belichick is a great defensive coach, but the way the game is now, the value of a defensive coach is significantly lessened. If you can't draft and develop a QB for the modern game, you are going to be in trouble and there's no reason to think Bill can do that.

[Fletch]

Belichick is a great defensive coach, but the way the game is now, the value of a defensive coach is significantly lessened. If you can't draft and develop a QB for the modern game, you are going to be in trouble and there's no reason to think Bill can do that.

Are we talking about the Giants still or in general? I really don't know if there is a good QB in Mack Jone, or if Zeppe is better, or if the Patriots are just a mess because they have had some pretty crumby draft positions, or some combination thereof or if Bill just lost his edge.

However, I know a few things about the Giants, and he would certainly be considered a net positive here. For no other reason than Mara's meddling and ridiculous roster moves  would be a thing of the past here.

I would say the best coach here since Tom Coughlin was easily Garrett. Not saying much.  But, it is what it is. How that would not be an improvement and how there would be no doubt about QBs at least, and no doubt about the defense not taking a big step down since Winks departure , unless a solid defense minded coach brought in -- which BB is could not be considered a win-win.

[jgrangers2]

Are we talking about the Giants still or in general? I really don't know if there is a good QB in Mack Jone, or if Zeppe is better, or if the Patriots are just a mess because they have had some pretty crumby draft positions, or some combination thereof or if Bill just lost his edge.

However, I know a few things about the Giants, and he would certainly be considered a net positive here. For no other reason than Mara's meddling and ridiculous roster moves  would be a thing of the past here.

I would say the best coach here since Tom Coughlin was easily Garrett. Not saying much.  But, it is what it is. How that would not be an improvement and how there would be no doubt about QBs at least, and no doubt about the defense not taking a big step down since Winks departure , unless a solid defense minded coach brought in -- which BB is could not be considered a win-win.

If he picked Jones and Zappe and neither look like NFL caliber QBs then what does that say about either his ability to scout or ability to develop the position? You're not necessarily getting a coach better suited for this, you're just getting a name.

[Fletch]

If he picked Jones and Zappe and neither look like NFL caliber QBs then what does that say about either his ability to scout or ability to develop the position? You're not necessarily getting a coach better suited for this, you're just getting a name.

Not sure if you can say Mac Jones is not an NFL QB. Pretty obvious this is a waste of time. You have it in your head Bill Is an irrelevant person on a football team since all of his success can attributed to Tom Brady.

I'll leave with this -- he is a better coach than Daboll . But who knows I think Mara saddled him with such a bad QB who really knows. At least Mac Jones was a good college player. What the heck is the excuse for Daboll retaining Daniel Jones as a starting QB? There is also a history of Bill, ownership and Joe Judge as it pertains to Jones. The situation is not as cut and dry as you are making it to be.

[Philosophers]

Tom Brady said this week that Bill B. Is responsible for developing him into the QB he became.  He seems to think coaching really matters.  No way Brady becomes the QB he is with all these other QBs.

[Philosophers]

How about Bill B as head coach and he makes Nick Saban DC?  Get the band back together.

Did you see the article today in which Louis Riddick said when he was interviewing for Giants GM, he contacted Saban to see if he'd coach the Giants?

[brownelvis54]

Jim Harbaugh interviews for NFL head coaching job


I would rather have Jim


https://nypost.com/2024/01/16/sports/jim-harbaugh-next-team-odds-chargers-pull-away-after-head-coaching-interview/