Very interesting articles. Full vaccination against COVID-19 and a breakthrough infection builds 'super immunity,' study finds. ...
COVID-19 death rates across South Africa also have fallen precipitously despite the Omicron wave. If there is no massive surge in hospitalizations or deaths in the next two to three weeks, that
Last one. Mods feel free to move this if you want.
Omicron variant may hasten pace for COVID-19 to become endemic,
A lot of interesting info out there if you turn off main stream media and do the research.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Brown. Thanks for sharing this. I'm interested in learning and being educated. Let's leave politics and slander off this thread please so people interested like myself can learn more.
Sent from my SM-A516U using Tapatalk
Quote from: Slugs Narrows on December 17, 2021, 08:57:56 PM
A lot of interesting info out there if you turn off main stream media and do the research.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The vast majority of people lack the scientific and medical backgrounds to
There were those who expressed a desire to learn what is going on. Here is an interview with someone who is qualified as an expert and is someone whose views can and should be listened to
How effective are vaccines against omicron? An epidemiologist answers 6 questions
December 15, 2021 2.49pm EST
https://theconversation.com/how-effective-are-vaccines-against-omicron-an-epidemiologist-answers-6-questions-173554
Melissa Hawkins
Director, Undergraduate Programs, Dept. of Health Studies
Health Studies
Contact
Send email to Melissa Hawkins
(202) 885-6252 (Office)
CAS - Health Studies
McCabe - 220
Degrees
Ph.D., Johns Hopkins University
M.H.S., Johns Hopkins University
B.A., Emory University
Bio
Melissa Hawkins is the Director of Undergraduate Programs in the Department of Health Studies at American University. Dr. Hawkins is an epidemiologist with over a decade of experience in the application of public health methodologies to government and private sector challenges. Her expertise is in maternal and child health, with an interest in improving pregnancy outcomes. Currently, her research addresses the integration of Community Health Workers (CHW) in the U.S. health workforce, in both clinical and community-based teams, and examining the effectiveness of CHWs as change agents in improving health equity. She is also the research director for a 5-year intervention study, funded by the USDA, to improve health literacy and prevent obesity in elementary school students in Washington DC. Before joining American in 2015, she served as Research Director for TMNcorp, a public health communications organization, where she lead the design, conduct, and analyses for epidemiological investigations related to women, infant, and children
It was requested that we open up this thread and just remove the inappropriate posts and the replies. So if you don
Medical experts at NIH, Harvard, etc., are saying that Omicron will affect the vaccinated versus unvaccinated very differently with the former being much less likely to get it and if they get it, for it to be most likely very, very mild whereas the latter have a much higher risk of getting it and if they get it, of having much more serious effects from it.
Is the point of this message to just let it run rampant because it is milder than Delta and will lead to more herd immunity? If that's the message, the research experts are saying it will lead to more serious cases for those who have not yet been vaccinated.
The result will be two different outcomes for different pools of the population.
I can tell you a few things, based on what I am seeing, hearing, and reading.
1) NJ is blowing up with cases. It came on like a sudden storm over the past few days
2) If you are not boosted you are not vaccinated. If you want to be protected from Omicron you need a booster shot.
Be careful out there. I had a coworker who lost a friend (a woman in her 30s who was vaccinated without medical issues to a Covid induced blood clot), so don't think that Covid isn't dangerous. The poor woman had young kids so it was just a terrible story to hear.
Quote from: brownelvis54 on December 17, 2021, 05:33:29 PM
Very interesting articles. Full vaccination against COVID-19 and a breakthrough infection builds 'super immunity,' study finds. ...
COVID-19 death rates across South Africa also have fallen precipitously despite the Omicron wave. If there is no massive surge in hospitalizations or deaths in the next two to three weeks, that
Quote from: AYM on December 20, 2021, 02:08:59 PM
The hope in a world full of anti-vaxxers was that the virus would mutate into something harmless.
Well that won't be the case. I think more herd immunity will be created, however, it will come at their expense based on what medical research institutions are saying about the virus' effect on the unvaccinated. That's their choice.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 20, 2021, 01:03:09 PM
It was requested that we open up this thread and just remove the inappropriate posts and the replies. So if you don
NY has one of the highest vaccination rate in the country. And despite having the most cases daily since the start of the pandemic hospitalizations are almost 5,000 patients less than they were in January. That
Quote from: Rambo89 on December 20, 2021, 04:37:07 PM
NY has one of the highest vaccination rate in the country. And despite having the most cases daily since the start of the pandemic hospitalizations are almost 5,000 patients less than they were in January. That
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 20, 2021, 02:03:31 PM
I can tell you a few things, based on what I am seeing, hearing, and reading.
1) NJ is blowing up with cases. It came on like a sudden storm over the past few days
2) If you are not boosted you are not vaccinated. If you want to be protected from Omicron you need a booster shot.
Be careful out there. I had a coworker who lost a friend (a woman in her 30s who was vaccinated without medical issues to a Covid induced blood clot), so don't think that Covid isn't dangerous. The poor woman had young kids so it was just a terrible story to hear.
Isn
Thanks, Ed for reopening this thread. It can be valuable to many here. We have a lot of intelligent posters and I v\lue a lot of the info I get here from people who know.
Gather info and make your own decisions.
Not a loaded question. Is information available about who hasn
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 20, 2021, 08:01:13 PM
So many people wanted to wait for the J&J because it was touted as natural. Or so they said to me. My niece took it because it was what was available for her in the city at the time. Now it
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 21, 2021, 07:33:07 AM
As it stands now officials are sort of suggesting J and J is a second rate and it's best to go for Moderna or Pfizer. From the data I have seen, Moderna seems to be slightly more effective than Pfizer so if you have had Moderna I would stick with it. As for those with Pfizer you are free to switch but I can't really say it would improve immunity
My Mom in her mid 70's got J and J several months ago....but I had her get Moderna a few months ago.
Great dialogue here with everyone.
Nobody should expect perfect outcomes with any of this from the inception of these vaccines. It's a very fluid situation so our medical experts/researchers are doing their best to come up with solutions based on the research at that moment. As more data becomes available, it should lead to better solutions and decisions.
I have a few questions, I hope people can answer for me.
First, I am simply amazed at the speed of the Omicron strain has taken to overwhelm this country. It seems as little as the beginning of Dec, 3 weeks ago, we were counting the cases on our hands for many states and now it is the prevalent strain all over the country.
I was watching a news show last night and someone brought up a very interesting theory. If this Omicron strain isn't anywhere near as deadly as the Delta or past strains, maybe it would be a good idea for people to actually get it and build up immunities. If, as many say, it is like the flu or a cold, would this not be a good idea. Yes, there ate certain people who would not want to get it, but wouldn't that be a much smaller group, and the masses could get it and live thru is and hopefully be immune, especially if they have been vaccinated. Anyway, I thought maybe a different way to look at it. BTW, this question was asked to whoever is in charge of the CDC and they basically avoided giving a straight answer, just the same, get vaccinated and boosted.
So, a couple of things. I am 75, my wife 70, both vaccinated with Moderna and boosted with the same. is it wise to keep doing things we have been doing, going out to eat, socializing in small groups, and most important, having our young grandkids over for a few days who have not been vaccinated?
Is this Omicron variant spread the same way as past strains? Like we now know that with the past strains, it is fairly hard to get the virus if you are outdoors and not in a large crowd?
I know 'older' people are at a higher risk, but myself, fairly healthy at 75, but I do take medication for cholesterol and high blood pressure. With the medication I am normal (health-wise) but does that put me in a higher risk category?
So many more people who have been vaccinated and boosted and are still getting this variant, it does make it so much scarier. yes, they are not hospitalized but getting this seems inevitable.
Quote from: LennG on December 21, 2021, 01:22:30 PM
I have a few questions, I hope people can answer for me.
First, I am simply amazed at the speed of the Omicron strain has taken to overwhelm this country. It seems as little as the beginning of Dec, 3 weeks ago, we were counting the cases on our hands for many states and now it is the prevalent strain all over the country.
I was watching a news show last night and someone brought up a very interesting theory. If this Omicron strain isn't anywhere near as deadly as the Delta or past strains, maybe it would be a good idea for people to actually get it and build up immunities. If, as many say, it is like the flu or a cold, would this not be a good idea. Yes, there ate certain people who would not want to get it, but wouldn't that be a much smaller group, and the masses could get it and live thru is and hopefully be immune, especially if they have been vaccinated. Anyway, I thought maybe a different way to look at it. BTW, this question was asked to whoever is in charge of the CDC and they basically avoided giving a straight answer, just the same, get vaccinated and boosted.
So, a couple of things. I am 75, my wife 70, both vaccinated with Moderna and boosted with the same. is it wise to keep doing things we have been doing, going out to eat, socializing in small groups, and most important, having our young grandkids over for a few days who have not been vaccinated?
Is this Omicron variant spread the same way as past strains? Like we now know that with the past strains, it is fairly hard to get the virus if you are outdoors and not in a large crowd?
I know 'older' people are at a higher risk, but myself, fairly healthy at 75, but I do take medication for cholesterol and high blood pressure. With the medication I am normal (health-wise) but does that put me in a higher risk category?
So many more people who have been vaccinated and boosted and are still getting this variant, it does make it so much scarier. yes, they are not hospitalized but getting this seems inevitable.
Lenn - few things to consider. Our bodies each day, hour or minute are never the same health as our bodies are constantly fighting things trying to invade our bodies. In many cases, we do not experience any symptoms. In those situations, we may be less than 100% healthy without symptoms so if say we get COVID, it may make us more sick or kill us because at that very moment we were not 100% healthy. That is why I believe some extraordinarily fit and healthy young human beings have died from it like that long distance runner college student from Appalachian State University. As a vaccinated person, you are unlikely to get serious symptoms, but keep in mind if you are slightly less than 100% healthy due to something else, it may affect you worse. My point is by being vaccinated you stand a better chance of not getting sick, but it does not mean you should throw caution to the wind and think getting exposed will only be a good thing. It could be if you are 100% healthy at the moment you get COVID and develop greater immunity by being exposed, but it may not if you are fighting some other illness and your immune system is compromised.
Quote from: LennG on December 21, 2021, 01:22:30 PM
I have a few questions, I hope people can answer for me.
First, I am simply amazed at the speed of the Omicron strain has taken to overwhelm this country. It seems as little as the beginning of Dec, 3 weeks ago, we were counting the cases on our hands for many states and now it is the prevalent strain all over the country.
I was watching a news show last night and someone brought up a very interesting theory. If this Omicron strain isn't anywhere near as deadly as the Delta or past strains, maybe it would be a good idea for people to actually get it and build up immunities. If, as many say, it is like the flu or a cold, would this not be a good idea. Yes, there ate certain people who would not want to get it, but wouldn't that be a much smaller group, and the masses could get it and live thru is and hopefully be immune, especially if they have been vaccinated. Anyway, I thought maybe a different way to look at it. BTW, this question was asked to whoever is in charge of the CDC and they basically avoided giving a straight answer, just the same, get vaccinated and boosted.
So, a couple of things. I am 75, my wife 70, both vaccinated with Moderna and boosted with the same. is it wise to keep doing things we have been doing, going out to eat, socializing in small groups, and most important, having our young grandkids over for a few days who have not been vaccinated?
Is this Omicron variant spread the same way as past strains? Like we now know that with the past strains, it is fairly hard to get the virus if you are outdoors and not in a large crowd?
I know 'older' people are at a higher risk, but myself, fairly healthy at 75, but I do take medication for cholesterol and high blood pressure. With the medication I am normal (health-wise) but does that put me in a higher risk category?
So many more people who have been vaccinated and boosted and are still getting this variant, it does make it so much scarier. yes, they are not hospitalized but getting this seems inevitable.
Len,
I wish I had solid answers, but we are still learning about this new variant that is spreading like wild fire. Until we have a better handle on things, caution would seem to be the wisest thing.
South Africa has passed its Omicron outbreak peak, top researcher says
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/22/africa/south-africa-omicron-peak-intl/index.html
While Dr. Anthony Fauci pointed on Wednesday to two new studies showing that the hypercontagious Omicron variant of the coronavirus is less deadly than the Delta variant, he cautioned against drawing the conclusion that the data might be a sign that the pandemic was drawing to a close.
Earlier in the briefing, Fauci discussed two new studies that showed that Omicron appears to result in less serious illness than those infected by the Delta variant.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/22/health/pfizer-covid-pill-fda-paxlovid.html
The Food and Drug Administration on Wednesday authorized the first pill for Covid-19, offering a highly effective defense against severe illness that will arrive as the country endures another major surge of the pandemic.
The drug, developed by Pfizer and known as Paxlovid, is authorized for Covid patients age 12 and over who are vulnerable to becoming severely ill because they are older or have medical conditions such as obesity or diabetes. Tens of millions of Americans
Quote from: Slugs Narrows on December 22, 2021, 09:15:31 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/22/health/pfizer-covid-pill-fda-paxlovid.html
The Food and Drug Administration on Wednesday authorized the first pill for Covid-19, offering a highly effective defense against severe illness that will arrive as the country endures another major surge of the pandemic.
The drug, developed by Pfizer and known as Paxlovid, is authorized for Covid patients age 12 and over who are vulnerable to becoming severely ill because they are older or have medical conditions such as obesity or diabetes. Tens of millions of Americans
One wonders about its efficacy against equine parasites /sarcasm/
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 23, 2021, 07:14:10 AM
It will eventually be a welcome weapon in the arsonel. It's going to be some time (months at least) before there is enough to make a big impact. Plus it has to be taken within 5 days of infection which makes regular testing important in terms of getting the drug in time
If they can mass produce the vaccines as they did this should be no different. The government should put all resources behind it to mass produce it.
If the information in this article is accurate this medication turns this pandemic around and the fear mongering in the news and from government can end!
Which it should anyway seeing the survival rate is now higher (99%) then it was a year ago, but no one seems to focus on the survival rate, only the infection rate as that sounds scary and most of the time you don
Quote from: Slugs Narrows on December 23, 2021, 08:26:09 AM
If they can mass produce the vaccines as they did this should be no different. The government should put all resources behind it to mass produce it.
If the information in this article is accurate this medication turns this pandemic around and the fear mongering in the news and from government can end!
Which it should anyway seeing the survival rate is now higher (99%) then it was a year ago, but no one seems to focus on the survival rate, only the infection rate as that sounds scary and most of the time you don
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 23, 2021, 08:38:21 AM
Paul, there is no "fear mongering' but there is "ignorance mongering" which you, unfortunately, have been a frequent victim of (you should really reevaluate who you listen to). Here is the reality:
Pfizer currently has 180,000 treatment courses available worldwide, with roughly 60,000 to 70,000 allocated to the U.S. Federal health officials are expected to ration early shipments to the hardest hit parts of the country. Pfizer said the small supply is due to the manufacturing time
Quote from: kartanoman on December 23, 2021, 08:44:57 AM
Heterologous boosting, also known as "Mix and match," has been recommended by the CDC for the mRNA vaccines (i.e. Pfizer and Moderna). For example, I completed my first two vaccinations using Phizer and, last week, completed my booster using Moderna.
Below is a link which discusses heterologous boosting:
https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/public-health/covid-19-vaccine-boosters-mix-and-match-what-evidence-shows (https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/public-health/covid-19-vaccine-boosters-mix-and-match-what-evidence-shows)
Peace!
Thanks this is what I was talking about.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 23, 2021, 09:18:52 AM
Paul,
You are 100% wrong. You have had a lot to say about Covid and 99.99% has been dangerously wrong. The reason that you are so wrong is that instead of listening to medical/public health/scientific experts to learn about a disease (that you are not really fully able to understand due to no education or experience) you decided it was better to go listen to political propaganda. In isolation what you are doing would be bad enough. Unfortunately, you are far from the only one and as a result, over 800,000 Americans are now dead (with a sizeable percentage being needless deaths).
I spent two decades of my life preparing for this epidemic. Never in all those years did I dream that toxic political propaganda would become so powerful and pervasive that it would literally kill 100s of thousands of Americans. Foolishly we spent those decades believing the overwhelming percent of the population would listen to experts over rumor and the unqualified. THAT is the one thing we really got wrong
What is the survival rate currently in the USA? What % of Americans are surviving after contracting covid?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Slugs Narrows on December 23, 2021, 09:23:11 AM
What is the survival rate currently in the USA? What % of Americans are surviving after contracting covid?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I am sure the 1600+ victims and their families will take great comfort in your survival rate
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 23, 2021, 09:38:53 AM
I am sure the 1600+ victims and their families will take great comfort in your survival rate
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hmmm won
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm
https://www.prb.org/usdata/indicator/deaths/chart/
"In 2020, approximately 3,358,814 deaths occurred in the United States (Table). The age-adjusted rate was 828.7 deaths per 100,000 population, an increase of 15.9% from 715.2 in 2019. The highest overall numbers of deaths occurred during the weeks ending April 11, 2020, (78,917) and December 26, 2020 (80,656) (Figure 1). Death rates were lowest among persons aged 5
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 23, 2021, 10:14:03 AM
Paul,
Who told you that survival rate is the most important (or even a significant) metric? Was it a public health expert? A scientist? A doctor?
To answer your question, I will cite John Hopkins
The COVID-19 situation continues to change, sometimes rapidly. Doctors and scientists are working to estimate the mortality rate of COVID-19. At present, it is thought to be substantially higher (possibly 10 times or more) than that of most strains of the flu.
or to put it in a way you might better understand
5,379,988 people have died of Covid
The World Health Organization estimates that 290,000 to 650,000 people die of flu-related causes every year worldwide.
So tell me again how Covid is no big deal and people trying to save lives are just "fear mongering" ::)
Again you love miss quoting people to make yourself sound high and
There are folks, too many of them, that are trapped by systematic errors in reasoning.
Some folks were told by You Know Who that Covid-19 was not a threat, and despite his own ass-protecting flip flop, still can't see the truth. Others fear side-effects, which are remarkably rare but purposely distorted by any number of lying sonsofbitches. And there are those who are so insecure that they distrust just about everything that challenges their low self-esteem. They will seek justification in damn near any conspiracy theory.
That's how it is, and always will be. What the current pandemic has done is to bring to our attention the ineptitude and incapacity of so many among us. But perhaps, we ought not to be surprised when we consider just how extensive is the racism, xenophobia, religious bigotry, and delusionism among us.
It will take more than super-immunity to overcome that.
Cheers!
The
After multiple years now with this global pandemic, why do folks still think about the high survival rate and not about the pressure this pandemic puts on our hospital beds and intensive cares? Over here in Kauai, we have only 9 ICU beds and yesterday had 41 new cases which was a markedly higher increase. Imagine how quickly those 9 ICU beds will get filled up to beyond 100% capacity by those new cases from yesterday, today and tomorrow of people who get very sick from COVID. Imagine the other non-COVID very sick people from other diseases, car accidents, etc who need those ICU beds who can't get them. Why is this so hard to understand the stress this causes to a community and its citizenry and its health care providers? Now, with so much data available about the benefits of getting shots and boosters to significantly reduce your chances of getting sick to where you'd need to fill one of those ICU beds and stress the system, why can't Americans put aside their ridiculous obstinancy and get the damn shots to help their local community?
What boggles my mind is now that this new drug has been approved to help curb the effects of Covid, all the people that refuse to get vaccinated because they claim they don't know about side effects, that the vaccines were rushed and all good stuff like that, will gladly take another new drug that just came out.
How do you figure this???
Joe, Larry, Lenn and Mark
You are all making incredibly good and valid points. Bravo to you all. Sadly, though there are three factors working against us and for Covid
1) Toxic political propaganda
2) The natural distrust of authority in immigrant communities
3) Past racial wrongs (including human medical experimentation on African Americans)
Those three factors are driving much of the vaccine hesitancy and the detrimental refusals to follow good public health practices
Yet, I wish I could say that this is just a uniquely American problem. From what I have gathered, this dangerous ignorance is pretty much as widespread on the planet as the disease itself.
I guess the bigger problem was as technology (like cable TV, internet, social media, etc) increased the world's access to knowledge, it removed all the gatekeepers and safeguards that made misinformation harder to peddle and spread. Populism and encouraging distrust in our government, media, and other critical institutions may have served various nefarious short-term goals, but it had long-term very detrimental effects.
Plus not all knowledge is good or spreads as well. While the techniques of manipulation, propaganda, social engineering, etc are studied refined, and improved, the teaching of critical thinking skills and the ability to identify efforts to manipulate have not kept up.
So here we are, having to fight ignorance (and other shortcomings) to save people from killing themselves and others and being demonized for the efforts
Quote from: LennG on December 23, 2021, 12:30:38 PM
What boggles my mind is now that this new drug has been approved to help curb the effects of Covid, all the people that refuse to get vaccinated because they claim they don't know about side effects, that the vaccines were rushed and all good stuff like that, will gladly take another new drug that just came out.
How do you figure this???
I think that is an assumption.
There are those I
Rich and Paul, while I appreciate your strong views on the subject, we are flirting with losing this thread. I appreciate the info coming. Please do all possible to not character attack.
Sent from my SM-A516U using Tapatalk
Quote from: gregf on December 23, 2021, 02:00:37 PM
Rich and Paul, while I appreciate your strong views on the subject, we are flirting with losing this thread. I appreciate the info coming. Please do all possible to not character attack.
Sent from my SM-A516U using Tapatalk
Respectfully,
I believe I had not attacked anyones characters unless it is in response to my own being questioned and pushing back in response. If you look at the one constant in attacking character and calling names I think it comes to the same person consistently that never has to pay the piper for his transgressions here. Till that changes it will continue.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Slugs Narrows on December 23, 2021, 02:49:21 PM
Respectfully,
I believe I had not attacked anyones characters unless it is in response to my own being questioned and pushing back in response. If you look at the one constant in attacking character and calling names I think it comes to the same person consistently that never has to pay the piper for his transgressions here. Till that changes it will continue.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No one called you names so drop the fake victim act. On the other hand, you couldn't expect not to get pushback as you tried to spread dangerous misinformation on Covid.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 23, 2021, 03:02:42 PM
No one called you names so drop the fake victim act. On the other hand, you couldn't expect not to get pushback as you tried to spread dangerous misinformation on Covid.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nothing I said was misinformation. I simply asked what the survival rate was And you have still yet to answer my question. How is that misinformation?
You constantly attack peoples character here. Just in another thread your attack on Len was deleted when you called him names. So talk about playing it up as the victim. Hmmmm
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Slugs Narrows on December 23, 2021, 03:14:19 PM
Nothing I said was misinformation. I simply asked what the survival rate was And you have still yet to answer my question. How is that misinformation?
You constantly attack peoples character here. Just in another thread your attack on Len was deleted when you called him names. So talk about playing it up as the victim. Hmmmm
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Paul,
Try a little honesty. You did far more than just ask a question. You made false claims of fear-mongering and told people not to trust the government or the media. It's funny you brought up Len's post (that Ed had to delete because Len LIED about me and SLANDERED me). It's pretty shameful that you support lies and slander and personal attacks and then try to twist your terrible deeds in a way where you try and paint yourself as this poor little victim. With people like you (and Len) honesty and honor have lost all meaning.
While I have literally spent a lifetime working for and volunteering to help people, you and Len have spend your time tying to harm others either through lies or false personal attacks.
I fail to understand after I had to delete and clean up all the attack posts on this thread so I could reopen it for some useful information, why it starts all over again. It takes two to tango.
Time to hit the brakes, take the fork in the road and avoid these toxic relationships. There
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 23, 2021, 03:38:38 PM
Paul,
Try a little honesty. You did far more than just ask a question. You made false claims of fear-mongering and told people not to trust the government or the media. It's funny you brought up Len's post (that Ed had to delete because Len LIED about me and SLANDERED me). It's pretty shameful that you support lies and slander and personal attacks and then try to twist your terrible deeds in a way where you try and paint yourself as this poor little victim. With people like you (and Len) honesty and honor have lost all meaning.
While I have literally spent a lifetime working for and volunteering to help people, you and Len have spend your time tying to harm others either through lies or false personal attacks.
I am honest maybe you should try it as well.
Just cause you don
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 23, 2021, 03:57:32 PM
I fail to understand after I had to delete and clean up all the attack posts on this thread so I could reopen it for some useful information, why it starts all over again. It takes two to tango.
Time to hit the brakes, take the fork in the road and avoid these toxic relationships. There
Quote from: Slugs Narrows on December 23, 2021, 04:09:14 PM
I am honest maybe you should try it as well.
Just cause you don
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 23, 2021, 04:32:39 PM
Paul,
It's disturbing that you support and endorse Lenny lying and slandering people. Is your hatred for people you have labeled "the progressive left side of life" that bad that you feel it's perfectly okay to wrong them in any way you please??? I mean you LIED because you know full well that Lenny lied when he said the article on Fromm was not flattering and that I posted that article to "put down Fromm on behalf of my boy Jones". I challenge anyone reading this thread to go view the article and see if Paul or Lenny were honest when they claimed the article on Fromm wasn't flattering and instead was negative.
I am truly curious who told you the media and government is lying to you? How exactly did you determine that? I am part of public health and I sure as f*ck have not once lied to you.
You know I may be brash and arrogant and opinionated but at least I have honesty and honor. I will take honor and honesty every time and I urge you to give it a try.
I never said the article wasn
Interesting video
https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/news/new-data-on-omicron-variant-prompts-cautious-optimism/vi-AAS4Aaz?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 23, 2021, 05:36:27 PM
This narrative that numbers are being hidden with the intention of scaring people is both false and dangerous.
Yet it is being done. It is not being shared unless people look for it themselves.
So it isn
Quote from: Slugs Narrows on December 23, 2021, 06:01:01 PM
Yet it is being done. It is not being shared unless people look for it themselves.
So it isn